Angry old folks

[zilla]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/11/specter.town.hall/index.html


I find it funny that most of the people getting all angry at the town hall healthcare meetings are old farts already sucking up our tax money from medicare. I guess being a hypocrite knows no age limit.

[gator]

I think it is pretty unanimous that the country wants reform, but how is certainly a touchy topic. I don't like any plan that involves a new government agency or involves the government budget (unless it is cutting current HC spending). No, I do not believe Obama's plan will save us money! The government's involvement needs to stop with legislating regulations. I know we could argue this all day, but some particular points have been growing in my crawl.

1. Obama couldn't build up the success of Medicare enough today, but then admitted that it would go bankrupt within the decade. Hmmm...:mad::confused:

2. When asked about how private insurance will survive against a government run public option, he referred to FedEx and UPS. He said, "The Post Office is always the one with money problems." Thank you, Obama! My point exactly. You guys can't do anything right. From social security to medicare, medicade, post office, public education, the penal system, Hurricane Katrina, etc, etc. I personally think he is lying out of his ass when he says this will not lead to a single payer system. The truth is - is there any other outcome? The government will run this public option at a loss (i.e., in the red) so that it can offer ridiculously low prices. Of course, the system will go broke (just like everything else they run), but it will be well worth it if private insurers go out of business and single payer is the only option left.

3. Did he really say we would subsidize the education for medical students? Could we possibly take a more expensive and less effective route? A plan like this would draw young people like flies to shit. Think about it - cheap school and the opportunity to make a killing. That's great except I still don't see how that is going to help America's bottom line - we might lower healthcare cost somewhat (i.e., medical salaries due to competition), but now we are subsidizing the overpriced education for tens or hundreds of thousands of kids. Follow me out on this - what if, and this is a BIG WHAT IF, we subsidized (if we have to subsidize something) the salaries of medical teachers instead? Hence, we could still attract top-notch teachers, but universities could lower their tuition for entire classes of medical students. Huh, huh??? Hence, we could accomplish the same thing - lower tuition and get more medical practitioners in the field, but we subsidize a lot fewer people and/or cost. Maybe we could even focus it to a select group of universities around the country, so we could get the most bang for our buck. It seems to me if we get more doctors in the field and they aren't coming into the workforce already down a couple hundred G's in student loans then maybe, just maybe, they would be willing to work for less, the free market could take over, and we could actually pay less for healthcare. I mean this is just one example of many things that I don't even think they have thought about because they are so worried about passing the quickest, most expensive, and probably least effective plan they can on healthcare.

[Mike Furley]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/11/specter.town.hall/index.html


I find it funny that most of the people getting all angry at the town hall healthcare meetings are old farts already sucking up our tax money from medicare. I guess being a hypocrite knows no age limit.



disgusting.

[wolverine]

if smelly teen hippies have an right to protest on abortian rights gay rights and orther left wing junk then old farts have an right to protest too

one word on health care reform

im on dialsyis I am a little afraid that the gov can come in and say my life is not worth keep going because of the expense and shut down treatment

NOW will this happen I hope not BUT what is to stop them IF this passes

[The Michigan Man]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/11/specter.town.hall/index.html


I find it funny that most of the people getting all angry at the town hall healthcare meetings are old farts already sucking up our tax money from medicare. I guess being a hypocrite knows no age limit.

Funny how not wanting to die from denial of coverage through socialized medicine can make old people upset...

[zilla]

disgusting.

F off. Pray for me ok?

[zilla]

Funny how not wanting to die from denial of coverage through socialized medicine can make old people upset...

Let's see, old people that are getting health coverage via the government are protesting about others that might get it as well under the Obama plan. Ok this makes sense.

[GoDeepHammer]

I would like to see the government live by the same laws they are pushing on us.

I would also like for us to stop paying for illegal aliens and giving aid to every country under the sun and put that money back into our country.

[GoDeepHammer]

Funny how not wanting to die from denial of coverage through socialized medicine can make old people upset...

I agree, killing yourself is a crime, but if the government says you are to old and sick it's ok.

[zilla]

I agree, killing yourself is a crime, but if the government says you are to old and sick it's ok.


I am against all government health care. If these old people didn't save enough money up during their lives for medical treatment and their own insurance then they aren't worth saving!!! Wow I sound like chriswebber.

I find it sweet that all you care so much about the old people you are willing to defend their right to socialized medicare. The strongest survive says I.

[michAGAIN]

Just learn to play the new system. For example, you're an old lady with a large life-threatening stomach tumor. The new healthcare system won't pay for the surgery in a million years. Just tell them you are pregnant and the lump is a fetus. They'll have you on the operating table that very day to do the "abortion".

[GoDeepHammer]

I am against all government health care. If these old people didn't save enough money up during their lives for medical treatment and their own insurance then they aren't worth saving!!! Wow I sound like chriswebber.

I find it sweet that all you care so much about the old people you are willing to defend their right to socialized medicare. The strongest survive says I.

I am not for socialized healthcare, not at all. I think that people that have paided into the system for their entire life deserve to be taken care of in their golden years. I believe that the people that are milking this system, the lazy people that don't want to work and just get a free ride through life, should be excluded and go from there.

[zilla]

I am not for socialized healthcare, not at all. I think that people that have paided into the system for their entire life deserve to be taken care of in their golden years. I believe that the people that are milking this system, the lazy people that don't want to work and just get a free ride through life, should be excluded and go from there.

What about the old folks that were lazy and are now getting medicare? I think we should check all their earnings during their life and if they didn't make a certain amount too bad. Any other way is Russia thinking and I will be darned if we go against the founding founders.

[The Michigan Man]

What about the old folks that were lazy and are now getting medicare? I think we should check all their earnings during their life and if they didn't make a certain amount too bad. Any other way is Russia thinking and I will be darned if we go against the founding founders.

Are you attempting cleverness through parody?

[Medic]

Are you attempting cleverness through parody?

That's my best guess, he can't be serious.

[gator]

I am against all government health care. If these old people didn't save enough money up during their lives for medical treatment and their own insurance then they aren't worth saving!!! Wow I sound like chriswebber.

I find it sweet that all you care so much about the old people you are willing to defend their right to socialized medicare. The strongest survive says I.

That's about the smartest thing you've ever said. In a perfect GatorWorld, there would be no social programs. Sink or swim, fight or die.....survival of the fittest. LIke I have desctibed before though, I could tolerate the most menial, bare-bones hard-luck fund, but not lifetime financial support, bailouts, healthcare, or cash for clunker programs. I just wish it took the proverbial "act of Congress" to get money out of them for social programs.

As much as you want to put the ol' folks out to pasture, you know that's never going to happen. Too many of them vote. In this respect, old people are as bad as the dumb and poor of society wanting their welfare. In the old folks defense, many of them have at least paid into the system throughout their life. I would be pissed too if I wasn't going to collect something I was told would be there after I paid on it for years. Nevertheless, government healthcare is the one point that I can really get frustrated with my own grandmother about. My personal thought is that programs like Medicare along with collective bargaining through insurance companies are why it is currently impossible for an individual to afford his own healthcare. The system has to be dismantled from the top down. Hence, only government legislation can fix this thing at this point. Unfortunately, I think the plan on the table, which is a lot more than legislation, is taking us in the direction of same ol' same ol'. To be honest, I would be interested in America trying a new experiment - ban insurance companies.....if even for just one year (although that couldn't be known a priori). That is the only way we will ever know what the true cost of healthcare is - when individuals start negotiating prices. Heck, just imagine if personal healthcare plans were tax deductable like they are for your employer. Everyone would have personal plans, and that would at least get the insurance companies fightning each other for your business. Right now, the system is just set up to screw us all.

[zilla]

Are you attempting cleverness through parody?


Am I along with gator the only conservatives on this forum?

[Wolvrin704]

Am I along with gator the only conservatives on this forum?

You're only conservative on certain subjects. Still doesn't change the fact that overall you lean left.

[michAGAIN]

New health care bumper sticker:

Obama Lied,
Grandma Died

[zilla]

You're only conservative on certain subjects. Still doesn't change the fact that overall you lean left.


I am real conservative when it comes to medicare. Who do these old people think they are? I mean take a war world 2 vet for example. Yeah you saved this country from the nazis but all that matters is how big your wallet is. Sorry pal, if you don't have the cash to pay for your own care as an old guy tough luck, sink or swim, fight or die.....survival of the fittest.

These old people are as bad as the dumb and poor of society wanting their welfare.

[zilla]

New health care bumper sticker:

Obama Lied,
Grandma Died

The latest news I have heard is that only muslims from kenya will be getting heatlh insurance because that is where Obama was born.

I am so angry right now. :mad:

[The Michigan Man]

The latest news I have heard is that only muslims from kenya will be getting heatlh insurance because that is where Obama was born.

I am so angry right now. :mad:

You just aren't cut out for this attempted cleverness, it doesn't work for you...

[zilla]

You just aren't cut out for this attempted cleverness, it doesn't work for you...

Are you as worried as I am the Obama Death Panels are going to be outsourced to China or India?

We need to keep this domestic as the founding fathers would have liked.

[gator]

You just aren't cut out for this attempted cleverness, it doesn't work for you...

Apparently, he isn't cut out for this capitalism/freedom thing either. Tug on my heart strings with the WWII vet stuff, zilla. Both of my grandfathers are WWII vets. Of course, I want healthcare to be affordable for them (well only one is alive, but I want all vets to get decent healthcare), but I don't want the nation to go into debt over it (and I don't think most of them do either).

You don't have a conservative bone in your body. I know your type well. You don't care what it cost (in taxes) as long as Big Daddy Government keeps people from being complete failures (social programs) and provides everyone with healthcare. Sure, I feel for the unfortunate. Tonight (on vacation) I wanted to give this guy with a hard-luck story some money. Then the wife points out, well he is affording to buy some cigarettes. On the way to our destination today, we also drove through an "underpriveleged" part of town. Sure, they don't have shit, but you know what? There they were at 1pm just sitting on their fucking porch, not doing a damn thing and didn't have a damn care in the world. It really fucking pisses me off that they are there every day, not just today....EVERY FUCKING DAY. Work? Why? Call them poor or underpriveledged, but they fucking deserve it. It's acceptable to them to sit on their asses all day and "just get by." Well call me a conservative,a heartless asshole, a racist (libs always like to throw that one out there, even though it is complete BS), or anything else you want. Life is tough. People suffer every day. My mother had colon cancer, and my family spent years paying off medical bills. Did we expect your ass to chip in? NO! My father and mother fucking dealt with it. We cannot pay for everyone, no matter how great Obama makes it sound. It is impossible; this country will go down in financial flames with that goal. Man, I just wish we could divide the country into 2 new states: capitalist vs libs (socialist, facist, communist, what every you want to be). On one side, taxes are low, govenment is small, and free markets reign. On the other, the government takes care of everthing, but taxes are as high as they need to be to pay for it. Then you realize: Oh shit, we can't pay for all this without the innovative business people (who have left your half for the business friendly half).

Face it zilla, if we were thrown into a life or death situation on a deserted island, let's say 10 to 15 people, and you touted your "I'm entitled to some of what you gathered today shit," they would rise up and kill your ass by the end of the week. Of course, I am discounting the possibility that 10 of them are like you and you start an ACORN mafia that comes and takes by force from the productive individuals. Your kind suck, and they are worthless. It must really piss you off when you see other people doing what you can't in life. By the way, go ahead and shove your "life-time student" retort up your ass. Just wait, son. Soon, my wife and I will be rollin' phat. Pulling down about 200 G's a year to start. Go suck on that with your "Would you like fries with that?" self.:p

[zilla]

I am the perfect mold for a conservative. I am a white male, married, college educated and make more in a month than your entire mobile home is worth.

So you ask why aren't I a total conservative d-bag like yourself? Well I have traveled in my life and don't live in the conservative small town bubble of fox newsville that says everyone is lazy that needs help and that market forces can solve everything. I think the deregualtion of Wall Street has taught us that the free markets alone can't be the answer.

And since we are on the subject of taxes wouldn't it be great if we could pick where our taxes go? Mine would go to things in the United States and if you paid taxes (most life time students don't) you could send yours to Iraq for the continued nation building project.

So gator contine to beg off the state of Florida for your subsidized PHD while at the same time trying to convince yourself that you know anything abou tthe real world.

[zilla]

"Man, I just wish we could divide the country into 2 new states: capitalist vs libs"


Best idea yet. Considering most people that call themselves capitalists (like yourself) are anything but. I bet the average income of a person at a Palin speech is in the range of about 35k a year. I would love to have them live somewhere else with their pathetic income and see how they do without help from the state like having their education subsidized.

Did you know for income levels of 100k or more Obama ran even with McCain?
Something you might want to learn before you write your next uneducated post about liberals being poor non-capitalists.

[amazinblue]

Zilla,

I'm wondering - did you actually attend and graduate from Michigan?

Personally, I'm glad that you're "rolling in the dough" - and that your fantastic 401K is up 14% this year. My question to you is - when you reach that upper income bracket - the one that Obama targets for all of his increases - are you ready, willing, and able to just turn over a disproportional sum of money to the government because "they know how to spend it better than you do?"

Please tell me that I'm completely ignorant. And, try to find something clever to describe my background and the "trailer home" I supposedly live in.

I'm glad you had your "career year" last year. I certainly hope your firm's plans for growth this year are double digit, and the tremendous contributions you've made - rather than just being in the right place at the right time - indicate an upward trend in your firm's revenues, market share, and profitability.

And - since you so casually toss a number of people that "work hard for $35K per year" into some socioeconomic group that's undesirable. My question to you is this. Who do you have more respect for - someone who does what they can with the opportunities presented to them in life, makes $35 K / year and pays their taxes - or someone who is on the dole, has demonstrated no interest in improving themselves or working, and continues to rely on the government for everything? Both get one vote - I'll always have more respect for the person that actually works - and strives to get ahead.

Your illustrious posts only illustrate the depth of your knowledge and inability to effectively argue a position. My guess - Computer Science major...

[Wolvrin704]

I love how he brags about his 401K being up this year 14%. Mine has gone up this year too buts its still 30% below what it was a year ago.

[amazinblue]

I love how he brags about his 401K being up this year 14%. Mine has gone up this year too buts its still 30% below what it was a year ago.

704,

It's the difference between seeing things from a "big picture" and "little picture" perspective. Like the forest and the trees.

[The Michigan Man]

704,

It's the difference between seeing things from a "big picture" and "little picture" perspective. Like the forest and the trees.

Zilla lives and dies by anecdotal evidence. "I'm looking out my window and seeing sunshine. Therefore, it is sunny everywhere." Not exactly logical reasoning.

Not everyone loses money during every economic downturn. Some people made money during the Jimmy Carter administration, I guess he had brilliant economic policies, right?

[gator]

I am the perfect mold for a conservative. I am a white male, married, college educated and make more in a month than your entire mobile home is worth.

Well, there is your problem right there. You "oversimplify" the conservative mold using only skin color, homophobia, and income. As you accurately pointed out but unastutely observed, many of the "Paliners" probably earn $35k/yr. Hence, they don't fit your mold, and yet they are conservative.:confused: That's because conservatism is not those things (which is why you fail to understand our motivation), but it is a mindset or belief that each individual should be left, to the greatest extent possible, to his own will and capabilities for his livlihood - whether he is rollin' in dough like yourself or a lowly trailer dweller. In other words, government should be about as intrusive as it was in the late 1700's. Sure, medicine wasn't what it is today, but there were still doctors and people still got sick. If the founding fathers felt healthcare was a right, don't you just think they might have mentioned something about it in some of the founding docmuments.



So you ask why aren't I a total conservative d-bag like yourself? Well I have traveled in my life and don't live in the conservative small town bubble of fox newsville that says everyone is lazy that needs help and that market forces can solve everything. I think the deregualtion of Wall Street has taught us that the free markets alone can't be the answer.

Well, I told you that you could call me whatever you want, so we'll just go with conservative d-bag. That's an honor coming from a liberal looney toon like yourself. However, I would think that you are indeed the d-bag because you completely misrepresent my statements. Have I not advocated a bare-bones, hard-luck social program sponsored by the government? I did this even under criticism by my fellow conservatives, such a cwebb. I realize things happen in life that are sometimes out of the control of the individual, such as losing a job. Hence, I would not begrudge someone receiving benefits for up to 6 consecutive months (and a total of 2 years lifetime) while the individual searches for a job. It's never taken me more than a few weeks to find a job, so I think it is quite generous. As far as deregulation of Wall Street, have I not also said that I do not mind government interference in the markets as long as it stops at legislation. I have repeatedly stated that my concerns are raised when Daddy Government starts opening the purse strings or starts operating major sectors of the economy (e.g., banks, car companies, insurance companies, and the healthcare business). None of this concerns you, huh? Finally, I understand that people get sick, which is really something nobody can control. Heck, my mom had colon cancer, and, unfortunately, that puts me at a higher than average risk. However, I also understand that this country cannot afford to provide everyone in this country healthcare. Not only will it break the country financially, we don't even have the physicians available. So the best option left is to cover as many people as possible for the most economic price. I honestly believe that would result from tort reform, tax breaks on healthcare plans for individual families, and a well-designed plan to infuse new healthcare providers into the system.


And since we are on the subject of taxes wouldn't it be great if we could pick where our taxes go? Mine would go to things in the United States and if you paid taxes (most life time students don't) you could send yours to Iraq for the continued nation building project.

My tax dollars would go to education (even as piss-poorly as it is run by the government), road construction, national defense, veteran healthcare, and ,unfortuantely, funding the salaries of those continually screwing us in Washington.


So gator contine to beg off the state of Florida for your subsidized PHD while at the same time trying to convince yourself that you know anything abou tthe real world.

I already told you to shove this one. Can't tell you enough times that my funding is derived largely from research grants for private companies. So yes, technically there could be some government funding in there (i.e., subsidized) but not to the extent that I'm mooching soley on government like you make it out to be. Not to mention, we are paying the full tuition rate for my wife's school. You know....like we make the money and then we pay for our own tuition. You will freaking lie and distort people's comments to whatever fits your damn purpose and especially when you have to protect your worldview.

As far as your 401 being evidence of the "recovering economy," I believe the numbers are only a facade. After ramming nearly $1 trillion into the economy, it's not too surprising that some of the financial indicators are improving. You're kind of like one of those hookers working at the club where Pacman Jones made it rain - for the most part you hate your job and lifestyle except for the night Obama comes in throwing money to the sky. I find it particularly amusing that Obama keeps talking about the success of his Reinvestment Plan by mentioning the "tax cuts" he gave middle-class America. Interesting! Conservatives, true conservatives that is, love tax cuts because they greatly improve the economic climate (tried and true). Unfortunately, it wasn't a real tax cut (and neither were GW's for that matter) because they didn't cut governemnt spending. I guess you could say they were "Astroturf" tax cuts. It's like (if not exactly like) your mortage company telling you they will lower your monthly payment this year, but all the while they are running the juice on your principle for when you resume payments next year. We're not getting any break, we're not getting a true tax cut because it is going to end up costing us more in the long run. That's OK though, you just keep giving your tax dollars to them without asking any questions.

Also, I had an important question on healthcare. Since you brought up the whole senior thing, I wanted to get your view on a hypothetical case? We have two seniors. One is very old and, although not terminal, is facing a very expensive treatment to extend his life. He happens to have the money to pay for his own proceedures. On the other hand, we have a senior who is younger and facing a condition of similar seriousness, but it is drastically less expensive to treat. This second patient has no savings and has previously relied on Medicare for his primary source of healthcare - in fact, the tax dollars paid by the former will fund the treatment for the second patient. Now, do you favor a healthcare system where preference is given to those who can pay for their own treatment, or a system where all treatment decisions are based on a government-sponsored panel's determination of cost efficiency. Does it not matter to you that the first guy can pay for his own treatment?

P.S. I found it interesting that while you criticized my conservative friends and me here, you couldn't accuse me of being unoriginal or stealing my talking points, i.e., I think you agree that I think for myself. I still wait to see the same commitment from you....and that means getting beyond the childish personal attacks (you must be closer to Obama than I thought:D).