Shafer resigns!!!

[bluefan]

WTF is going on???

[bluefan]

http://mgoblog.com/content/shafer-resigns

Happy, sad? How should one feel about this?

[Shane Falco]

http://www.mgoblue.com/football/article.aspx?id=159648

[Bossgobbler23]

RR must have someone good lined up already for them to come to agreement before the recruiting is done.

"Scott and I agreed that moving in a different direction was in the best interest of the program," - RR

Looking at Shafer's history I don't think he has been at any one school for more than a couple of years. I was not a fan of his hiring but after reading an article today I thought maybe he just didn't have enough time to impliment his system. It shouts out to me that RR already has something lined up and should announce real quick so that he can pursue recruiting with certainty.

[bigboyBlue]

Whoa!!!! Mixed feelings here too. I thought Shafer would have been given the same benefit of doubt as the rest of RRod's staff. Chemistry problem maybe? Do you think RR promotes from within?

[Mich Fan in Cbus]

I am still hoping for Tuberville!!!!

[bigboyBlue]

And what about our D commits??

[Sten Carlson]

I am still hoping for Tuberville!!!!

THAT would be SWEET!

Anyone think this is possible? I mean he was a HC, to move to DC would be a demotion huh? I don't know, sounds too good to be true!

I for one, am not upset by Shafer leaving. I think the Defense this year was about as bad as I've seen it, and it was supposed to be the strength of the team. There were some good performances, especially on the d-line, but the secondary was worse than ever!

I don't know if it was ALL Shafer's fault, but I'd like to see what someone else can do.

[Mich Fan in Cbus]

I am just hoping that he is sick of being the head guy and wants to stick to what he does best which is D. Any other names?? Gill from Buffalo.. anyone got anyone else??

[BlueBallers]

Doubt that Tubberville would take a step back like that. Auburn is paying him all of his salary so he doesn't need more. Guys that have been on the grind as long as he has would probably enjoy a year or two off to spend time with the family, especially when you are getting paid. With that said, he is a coach, and coaches love to coach. I think that if it was after the season and there were no other opportunities to coach, he might make a move like this. But there is still a chance a good job opens and he could get an offer.

Shafer was not the only one to blame but it falls on him. There were so many times this season the Defense was out of place or in a bad call and that can only be blamed on the man who calls the plays. If you cannot get results with the talent we had this year, it would take a special set of 11 to make the D work with him. I just hope it doesn't hurt the recruits. Im sure there are a ton of coaches dying to take the job of MICHIGAN D Coordinator.

[bluefan]

Isn't Tenuta playing second fiddle to Corwin Brown over at ND? We should throw a number at him.

[bigboyBlue]

From the Freep:

The two coaches had differing philosophies from the start as Shafer believed in a base 4-3 defense and Michigan began the season with that before morphing into Rodriguez's traditional 3-3-5 format late in the season.


"That’s kind of the reason the decision was made," Shafer said about their differences. "It's one of those deals throughout the whole deal (we debated.) We came up with that decision that it was time to go our own ways. It just didn't fit as simple as that is. I wish Michigan all the success in the future."

[BBA1994]

Former Tennessee DC, John Chavis, will be the new DC at UM. He lost his job since Kiffen brought his father to UT.

Pure speculation at this point, but my money's on RR bringing in Chavis.

[Mich Fan in Cbus]

Doubt that Tubberville would take a step back like that. Auburn is paying him all of his salary so he doesn't need more. Guys that have been on the grind as long as he has would probably enjoy a year or two off to spend time with the family, especially when you are getting paid. With that said, he is a coach, and coaches love to coach. I think that if it was after the season and there were no other opportunities to coach, he might make a move like this. But there is still a chance a good job opens and he could get an offer.

Shafer was not the only one to blame but it falls on him. There were so many times this season the Defense was out of place or in a bad call and that can only be blamed on the man who calls the plays. If you cannot get results with the talent we had this year, it would take a special set of 11 to make the D work with him. I just hope it doesn't hurt the recruits. Im sure there are a ton of coaches dying to take the job of MICHIGAN D Coordinator.


I agree with you to a point.. the thing is this is an odd time to make a switch.. before the bowls and in the middle recruiting.. I think it has to be a BIG name. we will need a "spalsh" name.. to inpact and off set this. I feel that there is a name already and agreed to or this move would not have been made now.. it was not like anyone was calling for his head and a change HAD to be made right now.. just odd timing IMHO.

[Mich Fan in Cbus]

Isn't Tenuta playing second fiddle to Corwin Brown over at ND? We should throw a number at him.


Have you seen ND D?? really the only # that should be thrown at him is 118 as in 118th in the country..

[Mich Fan in Cbus]

Former Tennessee DC, John Chavis, will be the new DC at UM. He lost his job since Kiffen brought his father to UT.

Pure speculation at this point, but my money's on RR bringing in Chavis.

I hope not I hate anyone from TN after what FAT fulmer did to Woodson and Michigan that year..

[BBA1994]

Perhaps RR is thinking of bringing Beilein over to be the DC. He likes quirky defenses (1-3-1) and has his team playing excellent team defense. Plus they have ties from their days at WVU together.

[bigboyBlue]

Anyone think he might promote from within??? What would you make of that?

[Mich Fan in Cbus]

Anyone think he might promote from within??? What would you make of that?



Who?? not sure that if you were going to promote from within would you not stick it out one more year with what you got??

[BBA1994]

It's certainly possible to promote Hobson. He was the DC at Southern Miss. It sounds to me like there was much friction between RR and Shafer in that mid-way through the season RR wanted a switch from a 4-3 base defense to the 3-3-5 base D and Shafer resisted. If Hobson is RR's "yes-man" then I could certainly see him being promoted. On the positive side it would keep some consistency within the coaching ranks during this crucial recruiting season plus he has good recruiting contacts within the deep South.

[bigboyBlue]

Who?? not sure that if you were going to promote from within would you not stick it out one more year with what you got??

It seemed like Shafer wanted to part ways as much as RR did, so not sure if sticking out one more year was an option. I don't know who he would promote, just asking. Is there a possiibility of coaxing Casteel away from WVU now?

[Buzz]

It looks like the DBL R is weeding out all players and coaches that don't fit.

Schafer got caught perpetrating a fraud. Everyone should just consider him a transfer.

I for one am pleased with this decision.

[GoDeepHammer]

Who takes his place? I would hate to see this hurt us with our recruits.

[Sten Carlson]

It looks like the DBL R is weeding out all players and coaches that don't fit.

Schafer got caught perpetrating a fraud. Everyone should just consider him a transfer.

I for one am pleased with this decision.

Buzz,

What fraud was Shafer caught perpetrating? Or are you just being folksy?

[rickyleach]

i heard maybe jay hopson the linebackers coach , i dont look at this as somthing bad, except on the recruiting front, i hope not though cause we have some good players comming in, lets be honest here , michigans D was the worst in 50 years , half the time they didnt know what the hell was going down, shafer is probably a good guy and you have to wish him well, didnt he coach at western mi, and northern illini, be4 comming to michigan..

[Buzz]

Buzz,

What fraud was Shafer caught perpetrating? Or are you just being folksy?

In selling Michigan on the fact that he was actually a capable Defensive Coordinator, or someone talented enough to head up Michigan's Defensive staff, I used "perpetrating a fraud" to create....imagery.

I don't know what folky means.

[Inflames]

First I have heard of this all day. I am excited to see who RR brings in or who he has lined up. Just my opinion but I think this will turn out to be a good thing. Our D was the one thing that was supposed to keep us in games this year and I dont think it performed as it should have. To be fair neither side of the ball did well but the D was more stacked than the O on talent this year.

Again just my opinion, not trying to bash the guy. I wish him well.

[Buzz]

Who takes his place? I would hate to see this hurt us with our recruits.

Honestly, I think it will hurt recruiting some.....for 2009. Cause this coaching change gives some of the prospects that are skeptical in coming to Michigan a reason to say no.

There's plenty of guys that I think would be a good fit for Michigan, I made an earlier post on possible DCs. I think the number one guy I would try to snatch is Bud Foster, of VT.

I tell you who I wouldn't want as DC is Norwin Brown, Chavis, Vance Bedford, and especially not Jeff Casteel, currently with West Virginia.

[GoDeepHammer]

Honestly, I think it will hurt recruiting some for.....2009. Cause this coaching gives some of the prospects that are skeptical in coming to Michigan a reason to say no.

There's plenty of guys that I think would be a good fit for Michigan, I made an earlier post on possible DCs. I think the number one guy I would try to snatch is Bud Foster, of VT.

I tell you who I wouldn't want as DC is Norwin Brown, Chavis, Vance Bedford, and especially not Jeff Casteel, currently with West Virginia.

Who do you see leaving?

[Buzz]

Who do you see leaving?

I don' see anyone leaving, or decommitting. Some of the prospects that RichRod is trying to sign up will use, or possibly could use this situation as a de-qualifying factor for Michigan.

But I think this is true for those prospects who are on the "fence", skeptical or otherwise looking for a reason to say no, to make their decision a little easier.

[GoDeepHammer]

I don' see anyone leaving, or decommitting. Some of the prospects that RichRod is trying to sign up will use, or possibly could use this situation as a de-qualifying factor for Michigan.

But I think this is true for those prospects who are on the "fence", skeptical or otherwise looking for a reason to say no, to make their decision a little easier.

I think that they have someone in mind. It's to close to signing day to let the DC go unfilled.

[bigboyBlue]

I don't think they do, but feel the position will fill quickly. How does everyone feel about the possibility of Casteel coming to UM? I need to look up the WVU defense this year....

[Buzz]

I think that they have someone in mind. It's to close to signing day to let the DC go unfilled.

I thought you were referring to what recruits would possibly leave.

As far as the new DC, I agree, they already have someone in mind. I just wonder who it is.

[bigboyBlue]

I have to say though, WTF was Shafer thinking when he spoke of 'the demise of the Michigan program". WTF WTF!!!! Is this a final potshot?

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

he was an impulse hire in the first place, that led to this. How do you sign a coach without ever meeting him before?? all i know is i do not want the 3-3-5 here it will kill recruiting and i dont think it fits in the big ten

[goblue]

What about Ron English coming back again at defensive coordinator? At one time some people thought he'd make a good head coach at Michigan. He was largely responsible for Michigan's turnaround a few years back when they went 11-0 before losing to Ohio State and USC. He's also the one who increased the conditioning by making everyone run early in the morning every day.

His credibility seemed to go to a low point towards the end there. But I think that was more or less the bi-product of being in a dying regime under Carr.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

What about Ron English coming back again at defensive coordinator? At one time some people thought he'd make a good head coach at Michigan. He was largely responsible for Michigan's turnaround a few years back when they went 11-0 before losing to Ohio State and USC. He's also the one who increased the conditioning by making everyone run early in the morning every day.

His credibility seemed to go to a low point towards the end there. But I think that was more or less the bi-product of being in a dying regime under Carr.

I take it you didnt see the Rutgers game

[Mich Fan in Cbus]

It seemed like Shafer wanted to part ways as much as RR did, so not sure if sticking out one more year was an option. I don't know who he would promote, just asking. Is there a possiibility of coaxing Casteel away from WVU now?

Better to leave then to get fired.

[W0lv3r1n3]

There's been a lot of big names going around, but there's one problem... they all use the 4-3 defense. The reason Shafer is parting with UofM is because he didn't fit in with the rest of the 3-3-5 staff. Either Casteel has expressed to RR he wants to come here or someone in the staff (Hopson) is getting a promotion. I would love to see someone like John Chavis or Paul Rhodes come in, but if they don't do much 3-3-5 It wouldn't make any sense.

It looks like RR wants to run the 3-3-5, and if it fails he'll lose even more support. Casteel has been running good defenses at WV so I don't think he'd be a bad get, it's just that I don't know whether the defense this year is Shafer's fault or the positional coaches.

Anyone think it's odd that this didn't wait until after signing day? On the positive side maybe we already have a huge name locked down that could actually help this class.

[LAMfan]

I am surprised there aren't more comments on the significance of this in terms of RR's coaching and leadership. Is this the right move by a guy trying to get all the right pieces, or a bad job of hiring and overseeing the DCs work? So far, the more that goes on in this first season, the more concern I have about RR. Yes, before I get slammed by the blue gestapo, it is too early to ask for RR to be fired, but I always have doubts about head coaches that fire assistants. I also don't know how RR could have not known about the poor fit, if that is what it was, of Shafer's preferred schemes and his own. Maybe no one else was available last year? I hope someone can offer a reasonable view of how a prominent guy like RR could not land a better DC with a good fit for his program.

[RealwomenwearMaizeNBlue]

I'm not sad to see Schaffer go. I think we were all a little dismayed this season at our defense. It was the one part of the team with experience that was supposed to carry us this year. If Schaffer was reluctant to buy into RR's plan - how are we supposed to get the players on board? The coaching staff has to be on the same page with the same game plan for the players to buy in - otherwise it will be chaos, which is what we saw most of this season.

[tpilews]

I was surprised as hell when I saw that ticker on espn tonight. I really thought Shafer should have been given a chance with "his" players. But, let's move on....

The timing of this makes me feel that there is already a DC just about in place and will be announced very soon. Also, the timing would also make me think that it's going to be a guy with a solid history of tough defenses.

[tpilews]

Here's a good read from mgoblog:


With the recent finalization of Monte Kiffin to Tennessee, it leaves a good defensive coordinator w/out a job.

John Chavis.

Living in the state of Tennessee, I am forced to hear all about Vol football, and of course Rocky Top at the top of every hour. I know Vol fans credit Chavis for being the only bright spot in their 3 year downslide, or ten year depending on who is asked.

Chavis recruits speed on defense and has sent many a talent to the next level. But unlike Florida State, his players are top notch in college and carry it with them to the NFL. Line backers are his specialty and to my knowledge, we need them, and we need them to be better.

""Following the national championship season of 1998, Chavis was named the SEC's outstanding linebacker coach."

Rumors swirled a month or so ago that LSU was his destination, so I kept my mouth shut, BUT nothing has come of it. So I bring it to the Michigan fan base.

"Tennessee's defense led the SEC in 1996 and ranked in the top three five of the past seven years."

Yep thats TOP 3 IN 5 OF THE LAST 7 YEARS!!!

Whats your opinion on Chavis? If he is unknown to you These next few points might help.. I promise it will be easier to find his success that it was Shafer.

Here are a few points from his Bio.......

"Johnny "John" Chavis (born October 16, 1956 in Dillon, South Carolina), commonly known as The Chief, is the former defensive coordinator, linebacker Coach and associate head football coach at the University of Tennessee, where he has been since 1989. Chavis is the only Native American that is currently a Coordinator or Head Coach for a major college or NFL team."

"Following the 2006 Season Chavis was named as the Assistant Football Coach of the Year by the American Football Coaches Association.[2]"

"Chavis and then Florida Defensive Coordinator Bob Stoops are credited with bring the "Zone Blitz" into College Football in the mid to late 90's."

"Following the national championship season of 1998, Chavis was named the SEC's outstanding linebacker coach."

I be perfectly fine with Chavis.

[amazinblue]

I am surprised there aren't more comments on the significance of this in terms of RR's coaching and leadership. Is this the right move by a guy trying to get all the right pieces, or a bad job of hiring and overseeing the DCs work? So far, the more that goes on in this first season, the more concern I have about RR. Yes, before I get slammed by the blue gestapo, it is too early to ask for RR to be fired, but I always have doubts about head coaches that fire assistants. I also don't know how RR could have not known about the poor fit, if that is what it was, of Shafer's preferred schemes and his own. Maybe no one else was available last year? I hope someone can offer a reasonable view of how a prominent guy like RR could not land a better DC with a good fit for his program.

LAMfan,

You raise some good points. I think that Shafer's notoriety was Stanford's upset win over USC last season. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I - like several others - expected the offense to struggle and the D to keep us in games. Obviously, the D spent a lot of time on the field this season - but, the D was giving up huge plays far too regularly.

Now, was Shafer an impulse hire by RR because he wanted his staff in place quickly? That's certainly possible. I don't want to see a revolving door in the coaching staff, but - I really don't think we'll see one. The DC is one of the most critical positions on the staff - and, it's RR's head that we'll be talking about this time next season or the year after if the team fails to meet expectations.

Regarding schemes, I prefer a four man front - but, RR knows how to defend a spread a lot better than I do. If we go to a 3-3-5, we've got to do a few things. One, blitz from all angles with speed and get to the QB untouched. Two, our secondary must be rock solid - nothing - I mean nothing, on those third and longs. And, three, our fundamentals must be sound - being in position and not making the tackle when you can is not acceptable. I know the coaches don't tackle, but - if a player can't make the tackles when they have the opportunity, perhaps the next player on the depth chart can. I think our depth chart was a bit too thin to be doing that this season.

I'm eager to see who Shafer's replacement will be. And, though I dislike Tennessee, I'd be pretty happy with Chavis...

[joeismyname]

we should just throw money at Dick Lebeau....:)

[tpilews]

I think you are right LAMfan. SS may have just been an impulse hire and the timing of the fire is at a point where there are quite a few names available out there. I think RR and SS didn't agree on a few things and perhaps would have let it ride out, but with the guys that are available, RR saw an opportunity and had to make a decision fast.

I really do think we'll hear about the hiring really soon. They've got to be able to retain their commitments, and, if a big name is hired, possible get some recruits UM wouldn't have otherwise.

[Buzz]

The fact that Schafer wanted to run a 4-3 and RichRod wanted to run a 3-3-5 set had very little to nothing to do with Schafer being shown the door.

The way RichRod wants the D to work with those sets provides for a lot of flexibility. The Nickel in the 3-3-5 is really a safety-backer mix.....one in which Bell, Jones, or Hawthorne will play next year, if they're ready. There's going to be a lot of competition for that wild card spot in years to come.

This wild card position is what enables the DC to switch from a five-back set to a four-backer set without any substitutions.

If the DC has four linemen on the field, he could easily switch from a 4-3 to a 4-2-5 cause the RichRod "nickel" is a hybrid.

That's the basic set for the Michigan Defense, and I think the new hire has already been identified.

[tpilews]

The fact that Schafer wanted to run a 4-3 and RichRod wanted to run a 3-3-5 set had very little to nothing to do with Schafer being shown the door.

Really??? Because, the way I read it, that seemed like the biggest and most important reason they were "going their separate ways."

[elno lewis]

How about this guy? He never rested!

http://www.nndb.com/people/692/000023623/flb.jpg

[Bossgobbler23]

I think you are right LAMfan. SS may have just been an impulse hire and the timing of the fire is at a point where there are quite a few names available out there. I think RR and SS didn't agree on a few things and perhaps would have let it ride out, but with the guys that are available, RR saw an opportunity and had to make a decision fast.

I really do think we'll hear about the hiring really soon. They've got to be able to retain their commitments, and, if a big name is hired, possible get some recruits UM wouldn't have otherwise.

I think what you said is right on the money. I also think RR already has a guy hired in the wings. Possibly a D-Co-ordinator that has to finish out a bowl game first.

[Don Unverferth]

THAT would be SWEET!

Anyone think this is possible? I mean he was a HC, to move to DC would be a demotion huh? I don't know, sounds too good to be true!

I for one, am not upset by Shafer leaving. I think the Defense this year was about as bad as I've seen it, and it was supposed to be the strength of the team. There were some good performances, especially on the d-line, but the secondary was worse than ever!

I don't know if it was ALL Shafer's fault, but I'd like to see what someone else can do.

It's not terribly unusual for a coach to protect himself by sacrificing a coordinator, but I think sh*t canning Shafer to avoid taking responsibility for his own failures is typical of Rodriguez' low character. To be fair, UM did rank near the bottom of the Big 10 in most defensive categories, but maybe that's because their offense was so mind-numbingly inept that the defense was on the field all the time. It reminds me of the Butch Davis era in Cleveland, when Davis threw one coordinator after another under the bus in order to cover his own shortcomings. If things don't turn around, I'm guessing we'll see the "resignation" of UM's offensive coordinator after next season.

[GoBlue21]

It's not terribly unusual for a coach to protect himself by sacrificing a coordinator, but I think sh*t canning Shafer to avoid taking responsibility for his own failures is typical of Rodriguez' low character. To be fair, UM did rank near the bottom of the Big 10 in most defensive categories, but maybe that's because their offense was so mind-numbingly inept that the defense was on the field all the time. It reminds me of the Butch Davis era in Cleveland, when Davis threw one coordinator after another under the bus in order to cover his own shortcomings. If things don't turn around, I'm guessing we'll see the "resignation" of UM's offensive coordinator after next season.

Thanks!

Now...BE GONE!

[bigboyBlue]

Really??? Because, the way I read it, that seemed like the biggest and most important reason they were "going their separate ways."

I think it was a combination of:

1. Lack of the inherent chemistry that might have already existed among RRod's previous coaches. We all know it is hard to 'get in' with a bunch that have known each other for quite a while, and might be pretty cliquish.

2. Running the 4-3 vs. the 3-3-5, though I think if the 4-3 would have worked, we wouldn't have had the D performance we did this year, and wouldn't be having this conversation.

3. Shafer might have had a harder time gaining respect and acceptance with some of the kids (especially the seniors, who really liked English). It can be said that in time and with his recruits, Shafer would have become better accepted among the players.

4. Being responsible for the worst D in UM history by a mile will kill your mojo, over and over again. I can imagine the guy was pretty broken a few times, especially after that Purdue loss.

[elno lewis]

WEll, at least it gives us something to talk about.

[LAMfan]

Amazin,

I agree with your thoughts on 4 man vs. 3 man line, and also know that I know less than RR. I do think one of the advantages of the spread is getting your players in space with match-up advantages, so I can see the use of more speed players. it has to be tough to put together a D that can defend the spread and conventional big back running teams. Was G Tech's running success this year in part due to the reverse advantage of a strong running team going against smaller Ds?

Tpi- I do hope we see the replacement named soon. As I said, I don't like seeing asst coaches fired, but on the other hand, you can't stick with a mistake/poor fit either.

[Todd]

It's not terribly unusual for a coach to protect himself by sacrificing a coordinator, but I think sh*t canning Shafer to avoid taking responsibility for his own failures is typical of Rodriguez' low character.

Awful presumptuous on your part...don't you think Don? Interesting how your biasness causes you to spin Rodriguez's every move into a "low character" issue. C'mon...bring something a little better to the table. I know you're more intelligent than this.

By the way, if 42-7 is all you need to say....then how come you keep sayin' stuff?

[blueisbetterthanred]

I think given time Shafer could have made this defense a lot better than it was.
I don't think this can be called a good OR bad move until we see how his replacement fares after a season or two.

I wish Shafer all the best though. No one will say he is the best in the league but he does try to implement his visions.

[Buzz]

Really??? Because, the way I read it, that seemed like the biggest and most important reason they were "going their separate ways."

You were also one of the one's who didn't believe that Schafer was being replaced too, weren't you?

Michigan lost too many games this year and the defense looked too bad for Schafer to stay.

It was the prevent coverage that got him dismissed, moreso than a given coverage.

Guess what happens next if Michigan looks remotely close to this year's team?

[tpilews]

You were also one of the one's who didn't believe that Schafer was being replaced too, weren't you?

Michigan lost too many games this year and the defense looked too bad for Schafer to stay.

It was the prevent coverage that got him dismissed, moreso than a given coverage.

Guess what happens next if Michigan looks remotely close to this year's team?

I don't remember saying either way. I do remember saying that I'd like to see SS get as much of a chance as RR. SS needs some time to get his defensive players so that his defense can produce. I also said that if a coaching change were to be made in the next two or so years, I'd rather it be right now.

That being said, I was a supporter of SS. He was the victim of average LB play, and even worse DB play, most notably, poor tackling. And these tackling issues didn't just pop up this year, they've been a 4 or 5 year thing for some players.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

I don't remember saying either way. I do remember saying that I'd like to see SS get as much of a chance as RR. SS needs some time to get his defensive players so that his defense can produce. I also said that if a coaching change were to be made in the next two or so years, I'd rather it be right now.

That being said, I was a supporter of SS. He was the victim of average LB play, and even worse DB play, most notably, poor tackling. And these tackling issues didn't just pop up this year, they've been a 4 or 5 year thing for some players.
I pretty much agree.
I also have noticed Michigan has been giving up the long bomb on defense for way too long......
I don't know if this is the new thing in college football--where the defense just watches the defender catch the ball, with no hand in the face. I mean it seemed every time a long ball was thrown against Michigan the last several years, as long as the ball was on target, it was a catch. I cringed at every bomb thrown deep. Anyway, coaches or players to blame, this is how it's done right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zd7sTo-SOk&feature=related

Just a little reminder to all.

[Buzz]

I don't remember saying either way. I do remember saying that I'd like to see SS get as much of a chance as RR. SS needs some time to get his defensive players so that his defense can produce. I also said that if a coaching change were to be made in the next two or so years, I'd rather it be right now.

That being said, I was a supporter of SS. He was the victim of average LB play, and even worse DB play, most notably, poor tackling. And these tackling issues didn't just pop up this year, they've been a 4 or 5 year thing for some players.

The good thing is that Schafer's out. The Defense lacked leadership, poise, and motivation at times, and were consistently in a bad prevent coverage.

Tackling, using the right angles in pursuit, and things of that nature are prerequisites for playing ball at Michigan. They're also things that need to be worked at often in practice, so as a team the players can stay sharp at them.

It's obvious that Schafer didn't make those areas a priority in practice, cause the defense won't have looked that bad if he did, practice makes perfect. That's why he's gone.

I'm willing to bet that the next DC at Michigan will have the defense playing at a much higher level than what we saw with Schafer.

[Sten Carlson]

I'm willing to bet that the next DC at Michigan will have the defense playing at a much higher level than what we saw with Schafer.

Not to be flippant, but how could he not?

I have said this many times in here: I think Michigan's defenses have pretty much sucked since 1997 -- especially the secondary.

I think they've been pretty good at stuffing the power-run game (see this year vs. Wisconsin), but anybody with half an arm could throw on them like they weren't even there! And, if they had a QB that could move a bit, forget about it!

I feel like Michigan Football has hit rock bottom (especially when you combine last year than this year) and the ONLY good thing about that fact is that there is nowhere to go but UP!

[LAMfan]

Not to be flippant, but how could he not?

I have said this many times in here: I think Michigan's defenses have pretty much sucked since 1997 -- especially the secondary.

I think they've been pretty good at stuffing the power-run game (see this year vs. Wisconsin), but anybody with half an arm could throw on them like they weren't even there! And, if they had a QB that could move a bit, forget about it!

I feel like Michigan Football has hit rock bottom (especially when you combine last year than this year) and the ONLY good thing about that fact is that there is nowhere to go but UP!

I've felt for a long time that M defense could stop any team that would just try to run right at us. But some of those darn fangled teams would throw the ball, or the QB would run around our defensive ends. How unmanly!

[bigboyBlue]

I've felt for a long time that M defense could stop any team that would just try to run right at us. But some of those darn fangled teams would throw the ball, or the QB would run around our defensive ends. How unmanly!

Passing is for wussies who don't like getting hit.

[Buzz]

Not to be flippant, but how could he not?

I have said this many times in here: I think Michigan's defenses have pretty much sucked since 1997 -- especially the secondary.

Michigan has had good defenses since 1997.......but they played against teams that were better. Doesn't mean that those defenses sucked......that's an incredible statement you made.

I'm not playing the percentages here......and incidently, if Schafer were still the coach, I'd bet on them to have a defense very simillar to what we saw this past year.

[Sten Carlson]

Michigan has had good defenses since 1997.......but they played against teams that were better. Doesn't mean that those defenses sucked......that's an incredible statement you made.

I'm not playing the percentages here......and incidently, if Schafer were still the coach, I'd bet on them to have a defense very simillar to what we saw this past year.

Just my opinion -- I am just sick of seeing Michigan defenses do all that great work to get the other team's offense in 3rd and long, only to give up the long pass, or worse still, the draw. I am sick of seeing an average RB or QB look like a superstar because the LBs and DBs take terrible angles, and then, if the do happen to take a good angle, they can't wrap up and the guy gets away and looks like a stud!

I think over the last few seasons our DL have been great, but I don't think that Michigan has had the LBs and DBs that they were known for over the years. I am not sure why this is, or what forces in or outside of the program could have effected this trend.

I just want to see our defense be the monster that it used to be, a force that other teams feared, and that could hold its own against any team in the country!

[GoDeepHammer]

Just my opinion -- I am just sick of seeing Michigan defenses do all that great work to get the other team's offense in 3rd and long, only to give up the long pass, or worse still, the draw. I am sick of seeing an average RB or QB look like a superstar because the LBs and DBs take terrible angles, and then, if the do happen to take a good angle, they can't wrap up and the guy gets away and looks like a stud!

I think over the last few seasons our DL have been great, but I don't think that Michigan has had the LBs and DBs that they were known for over the years. I am not sure why this is, or what forces in or outside of the program could have effected this trend.

I just want to see our defense be the monster that it used to be, a force that other teams feared, and that could hold its own against any team in the country!

I agree our DBs have done poorly against the pass. It seems like no matter how well the rest of the D has been, we get burned by the pass.

[LAMfan]

I agree our DBs have done poorly against the pass. It seems like no matter how well the rest of the D has been, we get burned by the pass.

I think the rush schemes under Carr where almost always bull rush with the idea of containing in the pocket. Few stunts and sell out blitzes, so on third and long, the receivers had time to get down field and the D backs had to cover for too long as the QB just sat still and watched everything develop.

[Sten Carlson]

I think the rush schemes under Carr where almost always bull rush with the idea of containing in the pocket. Few stunts and sell out blitzes, so on third and long, the receivers had time to get down field and the D backs had to cover for too long as the QB just sat still and watched everything develop.

Seems to me when you watch a really good defensive team these days, when they get a team in third and long, you can almost bet their going to play really tight man, and blitz and force the QB to throw quickly,short of the first down marker, and take their chances with a good open field tackle. Which, as we have seen for years, even if Michigan's DC called that play, more often than not, the DB/LB would miss the tackle, or two guys would collide and the WR would escape. Makes me wanna puke! I am really hoping that we don't have to be subjected to that crap any longer!

[Buzz]

Just my opinion -- I am just sick of seeing Michigan defenses do all that great work to get the other team's offense in 3rd and long, only to give up the long pass, or worse still, the draw. I am sick of seeing an average RB or QB look like a superstar because the LBs and DBs take terrible angles, and then, if the do happen to take a good angle, they can't wrap up and the guy gets away and looks like a stud!

I think over the last few seasons our DL have been great, but I don't think that Michigan has had the LBs and DBs that they were known for over the years. I am not sure why this is, or what forces in or outside of the program could have effected this trend.

I just want to see our defense be the monster that it used to be, a force that other teams feared, and that could hold its own against any team in the country!

I think the level of performance, and competitiveness were the issues for the Michigan players (or the lack of) under Lloyd Carr. That's the knock on him.....he didn't get the most out of his players.

RichRod can and will encourage all these things (the high level of performance and competitiveness), but to give my opinion on how this trend could be changed.......it's really up to the players to make it happen on the field.

[LAMfan]

Seems to me when you watch a really good defensive team these days, when they get a team in third and long, you can almost bet their going to play really tight man, and blitz and force the QB to throw quickly,short of the first down marker, and take their chances with a good open field tackle. Which, as we have seen for years, even if Michigan's DC called that play, more often than not, the DB/LB would miss the tackle, or two guys would collide and the WR would escape. Makes me wanna puke! I am really hoping that we don't have to be subjected to that crap any longer!

You nailed it. Shorten the time to throw, so therefore the depth of the routes, crowd the line, bump and grind and make a play.

[Buzz]

Which, as we have seen for years, even if Michigan's DC called that play, more often than not, the DB/LB would miss the tackle, or two guys would collide and the WR would escape. Makes me wanna puke!

That's a great example of what I see as players taking downs off, of not being hungry enough, and a general lack of competitiveness.

The coaches are making the proper adjustments for this coming season, this next season is going to be on the players to put forth some effort.

[Sten Carlson]

That's a great example of what I see as players taking downs off, of not being hungry enough, and a general lack of competitiveness.

The coaches are making the proper adjustments for this coming season, this next season is going to be on the players to put forth some effort.

I hope you're right Buzz!

I think you are correct in your assessment, and I say again, that I think that issue is on Carr and his staff. I think privately, RR must be disgusted with the way that Carr's player consistently let down and miss assignments. Every season, we're getting closer to a time when ONLY RR's guys are on the team -- and that is a time that I cannot arrive soon enough in my opinion!

[Bossgobbler23]

I hope you're right Buzz!

I think you are correct in your assessment, and I say again, that I think that issue is on Carr and his staff. I think privately, RR must be disgusted with the way that Carr's player consistently let down and miss assignments. Every season, we're getting closer to a time when ONLY RR's guys are on the team -- and that is a time that I cannot arrive soon enough in my opinion!

It does seem that many of the Carr recruits had an allergic reaction to the transition. Maybe its too much work for them???

[GoBlue21]

It does seem that many of the Carr recruits had an allergic reaction to the transition. Maybe its too much work for them???

That had to be why Mr. Boren had to leave...Family Values?!?! What a joke. RichRod's family and the rest of his staff families are encouraged to attend practice. I guess that means RichRod doesn't believe in 'Family Values'.

[Sten Carlson]

That had to be why Mr. Boren had to leave...Family Values?!?! What a joke. RichRod's family and the rest of his staff families are encouraged to attend practice. I guess that means RichRod doesn't believe in 'Family Values'.

That is a joke! Is Boren a hardcore Christian or something?

[Don Unverferth]

Awful presumptuous on your part...don't you think Don? Interesting how your biasness causes you to spin Rodriguez's every move into a "low character" issue. C'mon...bring something a little better to the table. I know you're more intelligent than this.

By the way, if 42-7 is all you need to say....then how come you keep sayin' stuff?

I'm just sayin'...

[Don Unverferth]

LOL, when some of my Michigan friends were openly calling for Ron English to come back, I knew it had gotten bad.

[LAMfan]

It does seem that many of the Carr recruits had an allergic reaction to the transition. Maybe its too much work for them???

My guess it is the common stuff with changing an organization. Those that are part of the old guard often don't see that there was a need for change, whether it is loyalty, BMOC complex, whatever. If they don't see the need for change, they respond to every new tactic, method etc. as if it violates something sacred. That is how I read Boren's comments, vague accusation of what is wrong with the new approach because the real problem is it is not the old approach.

I think this also explains a number of poster's comments, even my own at the start of the season. New is hard for a team with such a great tradition, but new and losing is surely wrong, right? Not necessarily, for all the reasons discussed throughout the season.

[bigboyBlue]

So Rhoads took the HC job at Iowa State, hes' out of contention for the job..

[tpilews]

So Rhoads took the HC job at Iowa State, hes' out of contention for the job..

Everything I've been hearing says Casteel is the likely candidate.

[GoDeepHammer]

Everything I've been hearing says Casteel is the likely candidate.

They had better call run the ball, as if it's not his choice for DC he is going to bitch about how we should have hired someone else.

[blueisbetterthanred]

I think RTB is really RR. He gets baked and uses that name for poops and smiles.

:p

[StevieBrownforHeisman]

I think RTB is really RR. He gets baked and uses that name for poops and smiles.

i don't know how many people on here watch videos on Youtube, but i would be willing to bet that RunTheBall is the same person as someone named PooleDan on youtube. PooleDan responds to videos of Beaver, Forcer, Feagin and other recruits and simply bashes RR and says how he thinks said player will never make it in college. funny cos one of the players he did that for was martavius odoms who is one of the best talents on the team.

anyways, if anyone else has seen pooledan's posts let me know if you agree.
link to the odoms video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q6zTRPm6yc

[1OSUNUT]

McGuffie looked great on YouTube as well. He must of never got tackled in high school.

[StevieBrownforHeisman]

McGuffie looked great on YouTube as well. He must of never got tackled in high school.

if you are responding to my post, you REALLY missed the point.

[Bossgobbler23]

McGuffie looked great on YouTube as well. He must of never got tackled in high school.

And what's Pryor's excuse, a broken arm or was he over-rated like the Buckeyes?

[Bossgobbler23]

My guess it is the common stuff with changing an organization. Those that are part of the old guard often don't see that there was a need for change, whether it is loyalty, BMOC complex, whatever. If they don't see the need for change, they respond to every new tactic, method etc. as if it violates something sacred. That is how I read Boren's comments, vague accusation of what is wrong with the new approach because the real problem is it is not the old approach.

I think this also explains a number of poster's comments, even my own at the start of the season. New is hard for a team with such a great tradition, but new and losing is surely wrong, right? Not necessarily, for all the reasons discussed throughout the season.

For sure its all of the above mentioned reasons. Many of us have had jobs where a new boss comes in and changes things when we were used to doing something a different way. Short term result, allergic reaction! Long term, probably more efficiency.

[1OSUNUT]

And what's Pryor's excuse, a broken arm or was he over-rated like the Buckeyes?

42-7 and a BCS bowl - you tell me ? :D

[The Michigan Man]

42-7 and a BCS bowl - you tell me ? :D

Wow, beating the worst Michigan team in 40 years and losing the only 2 meaningful games tUOS played vs. USC and Penn St without even scoring a TD elicits a big emoticon smile from you? Standards are falling in Columbus, I guess...

[Bossgobbler23]

That is a joke! Is Boren a hardcore Christian or something?

No, a hardcore Christian wouldn't have lied. He is a Buckeye!

[Bossgobbler23]

Wow, beating the worst Michigan team in 40 years and losing the only 2 meaningful games tUOS played vs. USC and Penn St without even scoring a TD elicits a big emoticon smile from you? Standards are falling in Columbus, I guess...

Right on the mark as always brother!

[Columbusisawhore]

Just my 2 cents worth. I think Chuck Martin (head coach Grand Valley State University) would be a good choice for the DC position. His teams have been very solid defensively, and he knows how to win. Here are some of his stats from his career at GVSU both as a defensive coordinator and as head coach:

GVSU D/C years:
2000: I was unable to get the scores from that season to crunch the numbers on, but the team went 7-4 with a nearly all sophomore team and after losing the first three games.

2001: Again, don't have the scores from the season for number crunching, but the team went 13-1 overall and won a National Title, and outscored opponents by over an average of 48 points per game which indicates a pretty solid defense regardless of the offense.

2002: 16.5 PPG allowed on average, 10-0 regular season record, 14-0 overall record and a National Title

2003: 13.3 PPG allowed on average, 10-1 regular season record, 14-1 overall and another National Title.

GVSU Head Coaching Years:

2004: 11.9 PPG allowed on average, 10-0 regular season, 12-1 overall record

2005: 12.2 PPG allowed on average, 9-0 regular season, 13-0 overall record and ANOTHER National Title

2006: 15.5 PPG allowed on average, 11-0 regular season, 15-0 overall record, and ANOTHER National Title

2007: 14.5 PPG allowed on average, 10-0 regular season, 12-1 overall record

2008: 12.6 PPG allowed on average, 10-0 regular season, 11-1 overall record.

The guy is 63-3 and his teams have been defensively solid (the numbers don't lie), if you look at the D/C years in addition to this, 111-9 overall record, and (at least from 2002 on) never had a season where they allowed more than 17 PPG on average... that's 7 years of this kind of defensive numbers kids... I thought he'd have been a good HC look last year (see the old HonoluluBlue postings on sackcarr.com) and think he'd be a hell of a DC.

[tpilews]

Just my 2 cents worth. I think Chuck Martin (head coach Grand Valley State University) would be a good choice for the DC position. His teams have been very solid defensively, and he knows how to win. Here are some of his stats from his career at GVSU both as a defensive coordinator and as head coach:

GVSU D/C years:
2000: I was unable to get the scores from that season to crunch the numbers on, but the team went 7-4 with a nearly all sophomore team and after losing the first three games.

2001: Again, don't have the scores from the season for number crunching, but the team went 13-1 overall and won a National Title, and outscored opponents by over an average of 48 points per game which indicates a pretty solid defense regardless of the offense.

2002: 16.5 PPG allowed on average, 10-0 regular season record, 14-0 overall record and a National Title

2003: 13.3 PPG allowed on average, 10-1 regular season record, 14-1 overall and another National Title.

GVSU Head Coaching Years:

2004: 11.9 PPG allowed on average, 10-0 regular season, 12-1 overall record

2005: 12.2 PPG allowed on average, 9-0 regular season, 13-0 overall record and ANOTHER National Title

2006: 15.5 PPG allowed on average, 11-0 regular season, 15-0 overall record, and ANOTHER National Title

2007: 14.5 PPG allowed on average, 10-0 regular season, 12-1 overall record

2008: 12.6 PPG allowed on average, 10-0 regular season, 11-1 overall record.

The guy is 63-3 and his teams have been defensively solid (the numbers don't lie), if you look at the D/C years in addition to this, 111-9 overall record, and (at least from 2002 on) never had a season where they allowed more than 17 PPG on average... that's 7 years of this kind of defensive numbers kids... I thought he'd have been a good HC look last year (see the old HonoluluBlue postings on sackcarr.com) and think he'd be a hell of a DC.

Yeah, he'd be a good DC as well for UM, but I feel like a lot of the extreme UM fans will be pissed about going DII despite his reputation. I, for one, think he'd be great.

[Buzz]

This guy has produced these type numbers for 8 straight seasons, really dominating at his level. Martin appears to be a bad @ss coach, an in-state coach too.

I don't think GVSU can keep him for too much longer, unless he just wants to stay there. Not that the "Valley" is a bad place to coach, I'm just saying.

If you're Michigan, you gotta at least bring him into Schembechler Hall for lunch, let him take a look around the place.

Chuck Martin is definitely a talented coach, his record speaks for itself. If Michigan don't talk with him, another school probably will.

[StevieBrownforHeisman]

Wow, beating the worst Michigan team in 40 years and losing the only 2 meaningful games tUOS played vs. USC and Penn St without even scoring a TD elicits a big emoticon smile from you? Standards are falling in Columbus, I guess...

when you put it that way, it makes them sound an awful lot like notre dame from a few years ago; beating shitty teams and losing to any quality team they play; and we all know what happened to THEM when they got into a BCS bowl...

[tpilews]

Looks like Jay Hopson is going to be the "heir to the thrown" for DC at UM. It's being rumored at Rivals. Casteel apparently is not interested. He doesn't want to move his kids into new schools. Personally, I'm a little "meh" on this hire, if it goes through. There were a few good DC names out there, and still are. I don't want to jump to conclusions, I guess we'll find out some time in the next 2 months.

[BBA1994]

I don't think who the DC hire is is all that important. The important thing is for RR to be comfortable and have someone that will run the D the way RR wants it run. Sure it might not be the best DC but as long as it allows RR to keep his focus then that will be the best man for the job at least for the next few years.

[tpilews]

I disagree. I think RR should be hiring the best available DC. Someone that has a history of great defenses, that can bring in the best recruits. Why can't UM bring in some top rated LB recruits. We're in on two right now, but one is a long shot (JJ), and the other is still unknown (Mingo). Any great defense is not complete without great linebacker play.

[StevieBrownforHeisman]

I disagree. I think RR should be hiring the best available DC. Someone that has a history of great defenses, that can bring in the best recruits. Why can't UM bring in some top rated LB recruits. We're in on two right now, but one is a long shot (JJ), and the other is still unknown (Mingo). Any great defense is not complete without great linebacker play.

i disagree with tpilews about the linebacker thing. i think that you're D-Line makes decent linebackers look good; and i think that linebackers defending the spread have to be able to get out into the flat and make good reads early in the play by keying off of more than just the QB and Oline.

oh and about the DC? i guess i see advantages and disadvantages both ways. if you have someone capable of doing it the way you want it done on your staff; why not give him the job? you know he will do just what rodriguez wants and not cause any further division amongst the staff. i do think it would be nice to get a big-name DC who can reel in big time recruits, but hopefully barwis can take some of the more mediocre guys and turn them into something special.

[tpilews]

i disagree with tpilews about the linebacker thing. i think that you're D-Line makes decent linebackers look good; and i think that linebackers defending the spread have to be able to get out into the flat and make good reads early in the play by keying off of more than just the QB and Oline.

So, does that apply to this year's team? If you take a look at the top defenses in the nation, they all have some things in common. Obviously, all position of defense are important. However, on those teams you have high LB play. I just can't help but notice when you watch teams like USC, tuos,... you always hear their LBs names being called out by the announcers. You always see them making plays and big hits. That was missing this past year.

I think if UM's secondary was good to above average this past year, their defense gives up 10 less pts per game. No doubt, the awful offense hurt the defensive play in the long run, but the DB play killed the team all year.

When you look at games where UM's secondary played well (Minnesota), the defense was pretty stout.

[LAMfan]

I don't think who the DC hire is is all that important. The important thing is for RR to be comfortable ....

Trying to understand, is this sarcasm? I don't think, from what I've seen so far, that RR places a high value on comfort. If anything, his approach may be low on the comfort side (family values anyone?).

Maybe it is about trust and the distraction that comes from having a DC that you feel is not up to the job. Then the new hire is important, but in competence and ability, not necessarily name value. I agree that the program is defined by the HC, and coordinators mean a little, but not too much. Maybe some big exceptions like Norm Chow if your a QB.

[BBA1994]

Trying to understand, is this sarcasm? I don't think, from what I've seen so far, that RR places a high value on comfort. If anything, his approach may be low on the comfort side (family values anyone?).

Maybe it is about trust and the distraction that comes from having a DC that you feel is not up to the job. Then the new hire is important, but in competence and ability, not necessarily name value. I agree that the program is defined by the HC, and coordinators mean a little, but not too much. Maybe some big exceptions like Norm Chow if your a QB.

I'm saying that for the second half of the year, it would seem that the differences between Shafer and RR may have been a distraction so RR needs to hire a DC that won't be a distraction. If Hopson runs what RR wants him to run then it won't be a distraction. RR seems to be partial to the 3-3-5 so if Hopson runs that scheme then it won't be an issue for RR to deal with.

[tpilews]

Here's what I read on mgoblog just a minute ago:


Here's what went down
.
Originally, three guys were talked to about the job. One was a longshot, and he has turned it down. The other was relatively less longshot, and it appears he's mostly out as well. The third is still in contention
.
The Longshot: Pittsburgh's D-coordinator (no, not U Pitt, but the Pitt Steelers) - Dick Lebeau. It is well known that DL has had some interest in the college game for a while, but with his Pitt D working so well, and the way he's entrenched there, it was not possible to get him. RR talked with him, but it didn't work
.
yes
.
The lesser longshot: Tommy Tuberville, the ex-coach of the Aubies. He was definitely interested initially, but due to philosophical differences with RR, it appears that he's very unlikely to come here now
.
yes
.
the third one is still in contention, and there is a good chance he may be the next DC. Of course, I can't reveal his name now because he's still in the running (otherwise, what's the difference between me and the jackass Herbstreit?). But, you can rest assured that this guy will also make M fans very happy, as I said in my previous post. Suffice to say, his name is NOT one of the ones making rounds in the internet
.
yes
.
and if this third guy doesn't work, then Hopson (whom THE KNOWLEDGE alls Hopperson) will be the DC. Sad, but true

If that last statement is true, then Martin, Vanderlinden, and Casteel are all out. Pretty interesting the couple names that were thrown around. Glad to see RR is going for a big name hire that has a great history. Hopefully, that third guy will end up the DC and not Hopson. Not that I have anything against him, I'd just love to see a big name come in and shake things up and get this defense back on track.