2009 Michigan Football

[elno lewis]

After giving this a GREAT deal of thought, I once again look forward to an exciting season in 2009. Perhaps, a surprising season.

Because:

Threet will be healthy (hopefully) and should be more in sync with the offense. Will also so some throwing accuracy improvement and be less prone to fumbling.

The ShawMinor Rage. When either got past the LOS this year, they were gnarly. Carlos Brown, accident prone, might pull a monkey out of his butt, but whatever.

Ball catcher guys. Matthews, Odoms, Koger--maybe even throw Caros out there--and whoever else. That's a mighty fine reciever corps there, Lou.

O Line. Lots of redshirts in 2008. Be some serious competition, and more DEPTH on the line in 09. Once in a while these cats will get in a groove. Opponents will tremble.

The D. Well, who freakin knows. They actually did enough to win more than one game last year and were sabotaged by the Offense. Does anyone remember what Stevie Brown did against Forida/Tebow? I say the D, not having to run out onto the field every 17 seconds, holds its own this year. Not top ten or even top 20.

All kicking: Impossible to predict.

Special Teams: Can't get any worse. I say at least a 25% in overall improvement. Of course, they could go batshiat crazy if Odoms or someone catches fire. If, if if...

TATE! OMGS! Is he Chad Henne? Rich Leach? Drew Henson? Can he start as a freshman? Can he leap tall buildings in a single bound? No. His only job is to keep Sheridan off the field. If he does that, I will be happy. If he does make it onto the field, he's either one of the above or Threet regressed so terribly they HAD to insert Tate. Either way, kittens will be trembling....

Incoming FRESHMAN. I am counting on at least one of those guys to be an impact player. Not even gonna hazard a guess, but quarkback is looking especially greasy.

Yes, we go to a bowl. Probably face some wicked WAC team that throws a brazillion times a game.

Merry Christmas. Its great to be a Michigan Wolverine.

[tpilews]

I honestly don't see Threet/Sheridan seeing the field unless Tate gets hurt. I think Tate starts from Day 1. I think it would be a mistake not to.

[primetime101]

threet will never see the field again barring injury or mop up time

[blueisbetterthanred]

I think Threet gets the start for 2, maybe 3 games to give the O line a little time to gel before Tate steps in. Maybe with a good enough camp he can start from day 1, but I don't think so.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

Well, if somehow Threet/Sheridan starts-- I hope there is some major improvement over the next 8 months. I guess it could happen, but the QB is so key in this offense........I'm not sure, but this kid(Tate) sounds like he's ready for the challenge. I'm excited about finally seeing this offense in action.

Depending on who starts or how the first game goes , I REALLY would like to see Forcier in for a half(or even a quarter at the LEAST!). I honestly feel he will get his first shot in that first game---starting or not. We'll see, I hope they are confident enough about who is starting so that we don't have to play this QB "flip-flop" all season again......LOL

[Bossgobbler23]

I think Tate has a better than average chance to win the job. If Threet wins the job and I think it's a BIG IF, then I think we see him share time with Tate until RR feels Tate is ready. But honestly my feeling is that Tate starts from game one. He has a chance to be a Henson, Leach, etc... He has been privately coached by professionals and can run very well and THROW DOWN FIELD accurately.

[GoDeepHammer]

I think that RR puts all the QBs at square 1 and lets them fight for the job. I agree that it will come down to Threet and Forcier, with Forcier winning out in the end. Not sure if he starts the season or not, but he will be the starter by mid-season in my book.

I just hope that whomever is at QB can get the ball down the field and pull the D away from the line.

[BBA1994]

I'd like to see them competing for the job in spring/fall practice. Then, even if Forcier is good enough to win the starting job, I'd like to see Threet get the start for the first few games with Forcier getting significant playing time in those games in order to get a certain comfort level before taking over as the starter. Similar to the way tressy used TP this past year. Threet's experience from last year will prove to be invaluable and could help Forcier learn the nuances of the college game before being thrown into the fire.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

There is absolutely no way of predicting who will be the starter in game one, I dont see tate coming in and starting day one, threet will hold him off if he can build upon last season. Aside from video clips we know very little about tate lets not get our hopes up and assume he comes in and dominates from his very first game.

[tpilews]

threet will hold him off if he can build upon last season. Aside from video clips we know very little about tate lets not get our hopes up and assume he comes in and dominates from his very first game.

The video I was talking about was an entire game, not just highlights. You can see much more about a prospect over the entire game. The good, the bad, the ugly. Tate's good outweighed the bad 10 to 1, easily.

I think if Tate were coming in to AA in the summer, then I'd give the nod to Threet. But, Tate will have 8 months to get familiar with the offense. Tate is already WAY ahead of Threet, skill wise. He just needs to get familiar with the offense. That being said, since Tate has 8 months to prepare, he'll start from day 1.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

The video I was talking about was an entire game, not just highlights. You can see much more about a prospect over the entire game. The good, the bad, the ugly. Tate's good outweighed the bad 10 to 1, easily.

I think if Tate were coming in to AA in the summer, then I'd give the nod to Threet. But, Tate will have 8 months to get familiar with the offense. Tate is already WAY ahead of Threet, skill wise. He just needs to get familiar with the offense. That being said, since Tate has 8 months to prepare, he'll start from day 1.

He is without a doubt more talented, its just a HUGE step up from low tier hs fball to big ten play. Look at pyror he was one of the highest rated qb's ever and he was average this year. But believe me i want to see Tate start, I just dont want to go into the season with such high expectations, last year i thought we would win 7 games at the least and look what happened.

[Sten Carlson]

He is without a doubt more talented, its just a HUGE step up from low tier hs fball to big ten play. Look at pyror he was one of the highest rated qb's ever and he was average this year. But believe me i want to see Tate start, I just dont want to go into the season with such high expectations, last year i thought we would win 7 games at the least and look what happened.

Well, if you thought we were going to win 7 games last year, you're expectations were a bit unreasonable in my opinion. I was pretty certain that neither Sheridan nor Threet were going to be able to run nor pass to the level of efficiency necessary to create a strong offense. After watching a few games, I was proud of the heart and determination that Threet showed running the ball, but his passing was so bad that no defense respected his arm, and just crowded the box, and teed of on the RBs.

In looking at Pryor, I see a guy with amazing running skills, and well below average passing skills for a Big 10 starting QB. I for one, would much rather have QB that, like Colt McCoy, developed into a more aggressively and effectively runner, than a QB that must develop into even moderately effective passer. I think Tate's arm is already better than TP's arm will ever be. Although Tate will probably NEVER become the runner that TP is today, I don't think that a spread QB has to be a superstar runner, but they damn well better have an arm that defenses will respect. I want Michigan to have a QB that makes the defense respect his running ability, and fear his arm -- and I think that Tate just might be that guy.

Yes, he's going to be a true freshman, and yes it is a BIG jump from HS to Big 10 football, but I think if anyone is up for the challenge, it's a groomed and highly motivated guy like Tate. Him coming in early, and being with the team for 8 months before the season opener, is going to be HUGE! I think unless he is a total bust (which I don't see happening -- but you never know), Tate starts from Day 1!

[tpilews]

He is without a doubt more talented, its just a HUGE step up from low tier hs fball to big ten play. Look at pyror he was one of the highest rated qb's ever and he was average this year. But believe me i want to see Tate start, I just dont want to go into the season with such high expectations, last year i thought we would win 7 games at the least and look what happened.

Pryor was average??? Isn't he like 8-1 as a starter??? Sure, he's got an awful arm, but what he lacks in his arm, he more than makes up for in his legs.

As sten already said, you don't need to be a super runner to be effective in this offense. You need a pretty good arm, and pretty good legs. A good balance is more important than anything else. Tate has that balance from what I've seen. Not only that, buy TP had what 2 months to prepare for his first game? Tate is going to have 8 months. He's going to grow so much in that time span. There will still be a small period of growing when the season starts, but it won't be anywhere near as bad as if he didn't have that extra 6 months.

[elno lewis]

Please, don't turn this into a freakin tosue thread.

Anyway. Tate is all that and a bag of chips. And his daddy likes RR's offense and he throws accurately. He can run. Bla bla bla....until you've done it in the Big House, you really ain't about nothin.

Tate did not play in the best league in Calif. Gonna be a huge step up in the calibre of competition. Coming early is great and all, but I am not expecting miracles from this kid. It is very difficult to start as a freshman at Michigan. Only like four guys have done that in fifty years.

So, before we go all man loving Chad Henne Rickleakish on Tate, and realize Threet may be -- initially -- the best option. Just not Sheridan.

Home schoolin' to the UM. Hope some young hard butt doesn't slake away his mojo.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

Pryor was average??? Isn't he like 8-1 as a starter??? Sure, he's got an awful arm, but what he lacks in his arm, he more than makes up for in his legs.

As sten already said, you don't need to be a super runner to be effective in this offense. You need a pretty good arm, and pretty good legs. A good balance is more important than anything else. Tate has that balance from what I've seen. Not only that, buy TP had what 2 months to prepare for his first game? Tate is going to have 8 months. He's going to grow so much in that time span. There will still be a small period of growing when the season starts, but it won't be anywhere near as bad as if he didn't have that extra 6 months.

I dont care what his record is, he has an average arm he plays QB not RB so im talking that, not his running ability. to be honest i cant think of a QB with a worse arm in college football. and obviously coming in in the spring is beneficial you dont have to remind me, but you need to realize that freshman qbs dont come in and shine from day one.

[bighousemike84]

Its funny cause you all are talking about Forcier and Threet but what about Sheridan and Feagin?

I do think that the battle will ultimately come down to Threet and Forcier but you cant count out the other guys. Sheridan obviously impressed the coaches in preseason practice cause he came into the season as starter. He showed some of what they saw in him against Minnesota. Feagin also showed in that game his ability to make plays with his legs. We never saw Justin pass but he made some nice moves on the ground.

The battle is absolutely wide open although I think Tate will not play this season. Or at least not start. Unless he blows the coaches away in practice he will not be starting and most likely not even playing

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

Its funny cause you all are talking about Forcier and Threet but what about Sheridan and Feagin?

I do think that the battle will ultimately come down to Threet and Forcier but you cant count out the other guys. Sheridan obviously impressed the coaches in preseason practice cause he came into the season as starter. He showed some of what they saw in him against Minnesota. Feagin also showed in that game his ability to make plays with his legs. We never saw Justin pass but he made some nice moves on the ground.

The battle is absolutely wide open although I think Tate will not play this season. Or at least not start. Unless he blows the coaches away in practice he will not be starting and most likely not even playing

I dont think he will start day one but if sheridan sees the field we are in trouble he is not a legit D1 qb and never will be. Im shocked you actually think he has what it takes to start.

[amazinblue]

...you don't need to be a super runner to be effective in this offense. You need a pretty good arm, and pretty good legs. A good balance is more important than anything else..

What I hope Tate (or whoever the Michigan QB is this fall) can do is - be agile enough to avoid the rush, quick enough with his feet to get a LB to commit to stop him when he's outside the pocket, buy enough time for a receiver to get open, and aware enough of what's happening on the play to hit the receiver in stride (or close to it) so that 3 to 8 yard losses are gains of 4 yards or more.

So, it's what we've been saying - decent legs, a better arm, a cool head, and awareness of what's going on in the field.

About playing in the Big House - I think this is important - you've got a LOT of fans wanting you to succeed. And, if I were RR and the coaches, I'd be telling everyone (or reminding them) - that there are over 100,000 fans out there - and 95% of them want them to win. The other 5%, well, they're rooting for the other team - and that's who we're here to defeat...

Go Blue...

[bighousemike84]

I dont think he will start day one but if sheridan sees the field we are in trouble he is not a legit D1 qb and never will be. Im shocked you actually think he has what it takes to start.

I never said I think he has what it takes I was just pointing out the fact that in the preseason the coaches thought he had what it takes. They thought more of him than they did Threet which is why he was the starter.

[Buzz]

Forcier sees spot duty next season. One of the biggest issues with last year's team was that they had very little in game experience. Threat had no game experience. At the start of next season, Foricer will come in with absolutely no college experience.

I think what you would want to do with Forcier is get him learning the system, and create situations where he can get in a game and gain some experience. The qb has a big responsibililty, I don't see Forcier being ready to start come late August.

[tpilews]

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions; that's exactly what this board is for. But, I think some of you need to go back and watch the 2008 season all over again. How many games could UM have won with just a little bit better QB play. Let's face it, Threet/Sheridan were only consistent in being inconsistent. Threet/Sheridan are not the answer and will never be the answer for UM. I admired their courage and determination that they displayed this past year, but I don't think they have the skill set to flourish, or even get by in THIS offense. Threet could be a good pocket passer in a pro set offense. Unfortunately for him, that's not what RR is running.

Buzz, I think your argument about game experience is warranted. The difference between Threet starting in 2008 and Tate starting in 2009 is that Tate will have 10 returning starters accompanying him. Minor is established as the returning featured back. Threet had no established receivers. Tate will have Mathews and Odoms; two guys who got tons of PT. On top of those guys, the incoming class is filled with talent at skill positions. There's a big difference in their situations.

Also, whoever becomes the next qb commit in this class, if there is one, will have more of a shot at seeing the field than Sheridan/Feagin. Feagin will be in the slot, no snaps for him. Denard Robinson is a likely candidate to be the backup behind Tate, if we land him.

If RR can't get Tate ready in 8 months, I'll begin to question his coaching ability. I have no reason to believe that Tate won't be ready come September.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

Threet could be a good pocket passer in a pro set offense. Unfortunately for him, that's not what RR is running.
I agree. The quarterback is huge in this offense.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

I'd hate to say it, but, we could have the world's greatest passing quarterback ever(without the quick feet)----and RR would still be running "his" spread offense. Agree? Otherwise, RR would not have even changed to a spread offense, and would be recruiting for a pro-style offense(that would have been in place already)---less change/transition overall. We would have definately won more games this year(with great pocket passer)---I'm not sure how great a superb pocket QB(with Threet-like legs ) in the offense PERIOD, would ever be or if it's even possible to win a national championship without RR changing his "spread" style of offense to better suit a passing quarterback.

I don't think RR wants a QB that CAN'T run very well---also, even if he can't run.....he will still have to run--I mean, it is the spread offense. LOL. We are going to be running the spread offense even if, assuming he starts, Forcier (or any spread QB) gets hurt. There is no turning the offense back, switching to NON-RR players to suit the QB that is running the offense in the middle of the season.

This is the importance of having a "true" spread QB......and a "true" spread backup QB---which will happen in the future. Anyway, I support RR.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

This is the importance of having a "true" spread QB......and a "true" spread backup QB---which will happen in the future. Anyway, I support RR.

Only time will tell if Forcier is the "true" spread QB we so desperately need and want---the offense will not change(the style, but more things can be implemented with time) no matter who is QB. I can't exactly call that being stubborn, we can't keep ourselves stuck in the middle of a transition. That was the bottom line of the whole post I made, not just the quote in this reply. We need a QB! GO BLUE

[Bossgobbler23]

A spread option RUNNING QB is the key to RR's system. I was watching the WV game yesterday and saw the stats from last year to this on WV's point production. This year WV wanted to pass more. They went from averaging something like 45 points a game to somewhere in the neighborhood of 32. They also averaged 100 yards per game less. I think RR will have Forcier run the ball but will also open things up a bit with this kid's accuracy on throws, thus the "dual threat". I know the kid will be a freshman but technically so was Threet, and this kid is coming out of a spread option system in high school, plus private lessons to boot. I think this kid will come in prepared. RR has said that he is going to prep Forcier on the playbook as soon as he arrives on campus. I am excited about year one with Forcier but also realize that he will need college game experience.

[LAMfan]

A spread option RUNNING QB is the key to RR's system. I was watching the WV game yesterday and saw the stats from last year to this on WV's point production. This year WV wanted to pass more. They went from averaging something like 45 points a game to somewhere in the neighborhood of 32. They also averaged 100 yards per game less. I think RR will have Forcier run the ball but will also open things up a bit with this kid's accuracy on throws, thus the "dual threat". I know the kid will be a freshman but technically so was Threet, and this kid is coming out of a spread option system in high school, plus private lessons to boot. I think this kid will come in prepared. RR has said that he is going to prep Forcier on the playbook as soon as he arrives on campus. I am excited about year one with Forcier but also realize that he will need college game experience.

I agree that the running aspect is key, as this O is a spread option, not a 4 receiver spread based on a pass first attack. At WVU under RR, the play calling was biased towards running. Here are numbers pulled from a Wikipedia article:

2001: 355 passes vs. 474 runs (57% Run)
2002: 279 passes vs. 714 runs (72% Run)
2003: 252 passes vs. 600 runs (70% Run)
2004: 259 passes vs. 589 runs (69% Run)
2005: 193 passes vs. 625 runs (76% Run)
2006: 233 passes vs. 590 runs (72% Run)
2007: 265 passes vs. 628 runs (70% Run)

The average is about 70% running. Not exactly the "chuck and duck" offense as some thoughtful critics have claimed. With this high a proportion of running, maybe a freshman with running ability will do fine.

[tpilews]

I agree that the running aspect is key, as this O is a spread option, not a 4 receiver spread based on a pass first attack. At WVU under RR, the play calling was biased towards running. Here are numbers pulled from a Wikipedia article:

2001: 355 passes vs. 474 runs (57% Run)
2002: 279 passes vs. 714 runs (72% Run)
2003: 252 passes vs. 600 runs (70% Run)
2004: 259 passes vs. 589 runs (69% Run)
2005: 193 passes vs. 625 runs (76% Run)
2006: 233 passes vs. 590 runs (72% Run)
2007: 265 passes vs. 628 runs (70% Run)

The average is about 70% running. Not exactly the "chuck and duck" offense as some thoughtful critics have claimed. With this high a proportion of running, maybe a freshman with running ability will do fine.

Using your statistics you posted, take a look at the Pat White era. He was not a good thrower coming in as a freshman. As he developed, RR threw more. That's not exactly staggering information. However, I'd say Tate is much more of a thrower right now than a runner. I'd look for numbers favoring the pass more than your average indicates.

[LAMfan]

Using your statistics you posted, take a look at the Pat White era. He was not a good thrower coming in as a freshman. As he developed, RR threw more. That's not exactly staggering information. However, I'd say Tate is much more of a thrower right now than a runner. I'd look for numbers favoring the pass more than your average indicates.

A little more balance would be a good thing.

How about White's bowl performance?! And career? Won four bowls, leads in QB rushing, finishes with a 300+ yard throwing game and about 80% completion. Should have been higher in Heisman consideration, imo.

On the other side, it looks like Butch has NC playing good ball. If he recruits well in Fla still, he may start something good.