Observations from an Alum who was there in 1997 and was there on Saturday.

[AlwaysBlue]

Atmosphere outside the stadium was about the same as I remember it in November 1997, though it was BITTER cold that day. Inside... totally different.

* When we arrived (about 11 AM) in the stadium, there was red everywhere. I expected it to be swallowed by the maize and blue faithful by kickoff but it didn't happen. Its been documented. The fans in my section (section 2) were more concerned with where they were being displaced than watching and yelling during the game. THE ONLY TIME they stood up was when we stood up in front of them and at halftime. So disappointing.

* The student section was about 75% full at kickoff. I can't believe that. I know UM fans are notorious (students) for being late, but cmon.. for OSU when their fans had been in there and cheering from 11 AM on?

* The student section was pretty loud, but the stadium overall didn't impress.. likely because there were 20k OSU fans being silent at the right time. So, there may be more overall noise when 100k fans are UM's way, but not on Saturday.

* The UM band was pretty quiet compared to the OSU band. We could hardly hear them across the stadium. Sure, they're far away, but OSU was blaring the other way and they were loud and clear.

* RECRUITS - This is a question to OSU FANS on this board. As usual, Tressel did what he had to do to put his team in the safest position to win. And, after going up 14-3, against a hated rival, he sat on the ball, ran it nonstop and basically dared UM's offense to beat them (which it nearly did). Do you think that impresses recruits? This isn't a homer question, and im not saying that a recruit looks at a losing team and thinks better of them than the winner. But, if a top recruit watched that game, and saw how TP could run at times, but really couldn't throw the ball well at all and saw how close to the vest Tressel played it for 1/2 the game.. is that a place you'd want to go?

* MIchigan was able to move the ball on the OSU defense more than a couple of the Chad Henne teams and while they were utterly frustrating at times with the awful switching back and forth at the QB position (and predictable playcalling), they still gained the same overall yardage as OSU.. though 80% of it was passing.

* Tate's arm/shoulder is clearly dead right now. Its been weak for 2 months and sadly, i think it has resonated down his arm where it causes some of the awful fumbles he's had. He's probably been unable to lift weights normally and has been taking it easy to keep his arm in decent shape for games. But, he had NO life on the ball for most of his throws. When he sets and throws, its decent, but when he's moving, that extract oomph he needs just isn't there like it was early on.

* I don't know what they said on TV or what it looked like but there were some horrible non-calls in the first half that stifled UM's momentum. The one that sticks out to me was the non-call on the PASS INT on robinson. He was about to run past the guy... the guy grabbed him.. then tackled him as he went up to catch it.. ball tipped to OSU and they got it back. Another seemingly non-call on an out-route right before the missed FG in the first half. I wonder how the game turns out with a couple calls our way.

Another 9 months of waiting.. sadly, bball, as fun as it is, just isn't the same as UM football.

My wife, a non-UM grad from the DC area felt my pain and said... "In 2 years, we'll come back and watch them win." I hope so....

GO BLUE!

[Vested_Interest]

Nice post, AlwaysBlue (the irony of that user name rings bittersweet, BTW).


...As usual, Tressel did what he had to do to put his team in the safest position to win. And, after going up 14-3, against a hated rival, he sat on the ball, ran it nonstop and basically dared UM's offense to beat them [...]

Yeah, and that formula (aptly named "Tressel Ball") has worked pretty well for JT over the years.

Look, until the starting QB earns his confidence (see Troy Smith as a junior and beyond), Tressel is more likely to turtle-up and sit on a two-score lead than open-up and try to put down the hammer, because fewer mistakes will be made by reducing the opportunities to make them. To be brutally honest, Pryor was neutered after the loss to Purdue, and rightfully so. Mind you, that's not an implied concession that he's a bust or that he'll never 'get it' at the QB position; it's just clear evidence of an acknowledgment that some guys take a few years to develop (again, see Troy Smith), and that, until we see certain signs of maturity from TP, it's best to lean back on the 'zone read' ...because that's the style of play that gives Ohio State the best chance to win in the meantime.


...Do you think that impresses recruits? This isn't a homer question, and im not saying that a recruit looks at a losing team and thinks better of them than the winner. But, if a top recruit watched that game, and saw how TP could run at times, but really couldn't throw the ball well at all and saw how close to the vest Tressel played it for 1/2 the game.. is that a place you'd want to go?

Well, what's so negative about what this hypothetical recruit of yours saw?

I'd argue that watching a Coach who doesn't respond well on the fly or make effective half-time adjustments (see Rodriguez all year long) may be far more discouraging to prospective UM recruits than seeing the opposing Coach secure a W by playing "close to the vest" because he saw the same same thing the recruit saw: namely that "TP could run at times, but really couldn't throw the ball well".

[AlwaysBlue]

Nice post, AlwaysBlue (the irony of that user name rings bittersweet, BTW).



Yeah, and that formula (aptly named "Tressel Ball") has worked pretty well for JT over the years.

Well, what's so negative about what this hypothetical recruit of yours saw?

I'd argue that watching a Coach who doesn't respond well on the fly or make effective half-time adjustments (see Rodriguez all year long) may be far more discouraging to prospective UM recruits than seeing the opposing Coach secure a W by playing "close to the vest" because he saw the same same thing the recruit saw: namely that "TP could run at times, but really couldn't throw the ball well".

Well, the name wasn't a double meaning when i made it.. but sadly now it works well in that regard.

As for the recruit, i'm definitely not saying that a recruit should think.. "Wow, tressel ball is boring and so im not going there, but RR showed only mild glimses of competance all year, so i think thats the place for me."

I have to be honest, i'm the biggest Big 10/Michigan homer that there is, but that game (if i was a recruit) would make me think twice about committing to EITHER school. I realize there's more to it than one semi-exciting, conservatively played (on both sides) semi-smashmouth game. But, to see what the Pac 10 schools are doing (oregon, USC, stanford now, etc..) and the usual media blitz on the SEC.. its a hard sell is all.

Yes, if i grew up a UM or OSU fan, obviously, none of that would matter as much, but.. seeing that game in person made me wonder what a recruit thinks about.

As for TP, he's not a bust yet, but he's close. 2 years in, he should be better. No OSU fan can argue with that. Not because all 2nd year QB's should be great, but given his hype, he hasn't progressed enough yet. The ironic part about his decision to go to OSU - many think because he thought it would give him the best chance for the NFL - is that its exposed him to be an awful QB with some good athletic skills. And, he would have been better off learning in a system like RR's where, yes, he might not be Tom Brady in 3 years, but at least he'd be truer to his capabilities.

Not only does he not "get it".. he acts like a total donkey. I watched him pre-game. He's more interested in the hype than focusing his play. Objective analysis here.. but he's never going to be GREAT at anything, if he acts like he does now.

[Vested_Interest]

AlwaysBlue,

My point is this: Tressel systematically adjusts in accordance to the strengths and weaknesses of his players and to in-game situations; Rodriguez demands that his players adjust to his system, and stubbornly tries to affect in-game situations instead of responding to them (often losing his temper and berating his players and staff on camera when things don't go 'his way').

Which Coach would I, as a prospective recruit, rather play for? :rolleyes:

[AlwaysBlue]

I agree... with that statement. But I'm asking why I would want to go to either school!!

That said, the "berating" part has been over-documented and over-analyzed and its constantly a back and forth between whether he's really berating his players or if its just interpreted that way.

I think he comes off looking like a total prick on camera, but that doesn't mean he actually is one.

What I found interesting is that the student population seemed to be really behind RR. Usually students are the first to turn coat and boo etc.. but they were solidly in his corner.

RR seems like he's not that bad of a guy but seems like he's constantly struggling to stay above water.

If he gets this thing eventually turned around.. (8-4 next year, 9-3 the next etc..), I have to wonder if he thinks this is even worth it? I could see him taking off again to the shock of UM fans everywhere. Something never sat right about him and that funny feeling still won't go away.

[Silver Bullet]

Are any Um fans under the impression that Tressel Ball is something new? He's played this way since he arrived at OSU, the only difference is that he generally had a better passer lining up behind center. To my knowledge, OSU has done pretty well with regards to recruiting. I think you're hoping that OSU is going to struggle enticing prospects to sign and I think you're going to be disappointed. We'll be fine. I'd be more worried if I was a program in decline with a coach that can't tell recruits for sure that he'll still have a job in 2 years.

I can't believe it took three whole days for one of you to blame the loss on the officials. Tell me, which one of the officials was responsible for the 5 turnovers?

[Vested_Interest]

AlwaysBlue,

I'll respond more in depth later, but quickly...


...I think he comes off looking like a total prick on camera, but that doesn't mean he actually is one.

Unfortunately for UM, perception is reality.

That's why it behooves Coaches to conduct themselves like grown-ups on the sidelines (especially on national TV).

Gotta run.

[amazinblue]

Unfortunately for UM, perception is reality.

That's why it behooves Coaches to conduct themselves like grown-ups on the sidelines (especially on national TV).

VI,

I agree that Perception is reality - no doubt about it. And, what I see in RR is the following - a head coach that's on top of the team - a very young team and directing them when problems occur.

For those who feel RR generates a negative perception - my question is this - how many headsets did Bo break when he was the head coach? And, do you think Bo might have been perceived as being as demanding as RR - or, do you feel that Bo was even more demanding than RR?

[Blue In Ohio]

Well, the name wasn't a double meaning when i made it.. but sadly now it works well in that regard.

As for the recruit, i'm definitely not saying that a recruit should think.. "Wow, tressel ball is boring and so im not going there, but RR showed only mild glimses of competance all year, so i think thats the place for me."

I have to be honest, i'm the biggest Big 10/Michigan homer that there is, but that game (if i was a recruit) would make me think twice about committing to EITHER school. I realize there's more to it than one semi-exciting, conservatively played (on both sides) semi-smashmouth game. But, to see what the Pac 10 schools are doing (oregon, USC, stanford now, etc..) and the usual media blitz on the SEC.. its a hard sell is all.

Yes, if i grew up a UM or OSU fan, obviously, none of that would matter as much, but.. seeing that game in person made me wonder what a recruit thinks about.

As for TP, he's not a bust yet, but he's close. 2 years in, he should be better. No OSU fan can argue with that. Not because all 2nd year QB's should be great, but given his hype, he hasn't progressed enough yet. The ironic part about his decision to go to OSU - many think because he thought it would give him the best chance for the NFL - is that its exposed him to be an awful QB with some good athletic skills. And, he would have been better off learning in a system like RR's where, yes, he might not be Tom Brady in 3 years, but at least he'd be truer to his capabilities.

Not only does he not "get it".. he acts like a total donkey. I watched him pre-game. He's more interested in the hype than focusing his play. Objective analysis here.. but he's never going to be GREAT at anything, if he acts like he does now.

If you noticed JT did run some plays out of our play book with TP and they scorched us when they did. TP would be scary good in an offense like ours. OSU should be using TP in such an offense. TP is such a good runner OSU would score 40 a game on anybody.

[Sten Carlson]

As for TP, he's not a bust yet, but he's close. 2 years in, he should be better. No OSU fan can argue with that. Not because all 2nd year QB's should be great, but given his hype, he hasn't progressed enough yet. The ironic part about his decision to go to OSU - many think because he thought it would give him the best chance for the NFL - is that its exposed him to be an awful QB with some good athletic skills. And, he would have been better off learning in a system like RR's where, yes, he might not be Tom Brady in 3 years, but at least he'd be truer to his capabilities.

Not only does he not "get it".. he acts like a total donkey. I watched him pre-game. He's more interested in the hype than focusing his play. Objective analysis here.. but he's never going to be GREAT at anything, if he acts like he does now.

Alwaysblue,

You know me, or at least my message-board persona, so you know that I am not prone to writing positive things about OSU. However, I have to say that I think you're being a bit biased in your comments about TP.

First, I don't agree with you that he's close to being a "bust". I think of a bust as a kid that is hyped (as TP most certainly was) and comes in and either loses eligibility, gets kicked off the team, or just flat on cannot play. TP, from what I understand, hasn't done any of these things. Again, I am not defending a Buckeye as much as I am defending a college football player in this post.

To say that a true sophomore SHOULD be better is a bit of a stretch. How well should he be playing, remembering that in most instances, historically, players didn't even get the start until they were a Jr.? Personally, I thought that JT made a mistake by starting TP last season over TB -- just like I thought that Mack Brown made a mistake several years ago starting Chris Simms over Major Applewhite. Just my opinion, and I know it worked out well for TP in that he won the Big 10 and a conference award. I think it's easy to sit here and say TP should be better, but as Nut et. al. have pointed out (even though it pains me to agree with them), he's winning for the most part.

I agree with you though Always, he wasn't all that impressive last game vs. Michigan, but unfortunately, he didn't have to be. If Tate hadn't fumbled, nor thrown those INT's and had thrown TD's instead, Michigan might have forced TP to come down the field and win the game. Then we'd have been able to get an assessment of how well he's actually playing. When he was running, which wasn't nearly as often as I thought he would, he was scary good, and very difficult to tackle. Several times he simply lowered his shoulder and knocked D. Warren to the ground as if he were a pipsqueek.

Again, I don't think it's fair to say, "TP hasn't progressed enough yet..." Personally, I wish he'd progress faster, so that he'd get all the NFL hype, and get the hell out of Columbus as soon as possible. Sadly, I think he almost certain to be there through his senior year, and that doesn't bode well for Michigan, unless the defense really begins to step up their game over the next two seasons. I believe GRob can and will get this defense to be a solid shut down type squad, but it might take more than two more seasons. I think given the limited throwing ability that TP had coming out of H.S., he's progressing just fine. Again, if I were JT, I'd have red-shirted him last season, stuck with TB, and had TP throw 20,000 passes a day. This season he would have to start, but it's obvious JT is comfortable with not asking him to do too much.

Just my two cents! TP does act afool, he's young, but it is a bit annoying to watch.

[jackson]

Atmosphere outside the stadium was about the same as I remember it in November 1997, though it was BITTER cold that day. Inside... totally different.

* When we arrived (about 11 AM) in the stadium, there was red everywhere. I expected it to be swallowed by the maize and blue faithful by kickoff but it didn't happen. Its been documented. The fans in my section (section 2) were more concerned with where they were being displaced than watching and yelling during the game. THE ONLY TIME they stood up was when we stood up in front of them and at halftime. So disappointing.

* The student section was about 75% full at kickoff. I can't believe that. I know UM fans are notorious (students) for being late, but cmon.. for OSU when their fans had been in there and cheering from 11 AM on?

* The student section was pretty loud, but the stadium overall didn't impress.. likely because there were 20k OSU fans being silent at the right time. So, there may be more overall noise when 100k fans are UM's way, but not on Saturday.

* The UM band was pretty quiet compared to the OSU band. We could hardly hear them across the stadium. Sure, they're far away, but OSU was blaring the other way and they were loud and clear.

* RECRUITS - This is a question to OSU FANS on this board. As usual, Tressel did what he had to do to put his team in the safest position to win. And, after going up 14-3, against a hated rival, he sat on the ball, ran it nonstop and basically dared UM's offense to beat them (which it nearly did). Do you think that impresses recruits? This isn't a homer question, and im not saying that a recruit looks at a losing team and thinks better of them than the winner. But, if a top recruit watched that game, and saw how TP could run at times, but really couldn't throw the ball well at all and saw how close to the vest Tressel played it for 1/2 the game.. is that a place you'd want to go?

* MIchigan was able to move the ball on the OSU defense more than a couple of the Chad Henne teams and while they were utterly frustrating at times with the awful switching back and forth at the QB position (and predictable playcalling), they still gained the same overall yardage as OSU.. though 80% of it was passing.

* Tate's arm/shoulder is clearly dead right now. Its been weak for 2 months and sadly, i think it has resonated down his arm where it causes some of the awful fumbles he's had. He's probably been unable to lift weights normally and has been taking it easy to keep his arm in decent shape for games. But, he had NO life on the ball for most of his throws. When he sets and throws, its decent, but when he's moving, that extract oomph he needs just isn't there like it was early on.

* I don't know what they said on TV or what it looked like but there were some horrible non-calls in the first half that stifled UM's momentum. The one that sticks out to me was the non-call on the PASS INT on robinson. He was about to run past the guy... the guy grabbed him.. then tackled him as he went up to catch it.. ball tipped to OSU and they got it back. Another seemingly non-call on an out-route right before the missed FG in the first half. I wonder how the game turns out with a couple calls our way.

Another 9 months of waiting.. sadly, bball, as fun as it is, just isn't the same as UM football.

My wife, a non-UM grad from the DC area felt my pain and said... "In 2 years, we'll come back and watch them win." I hope so....

GO BLUE!


If you are being recruited for Defense, based on that game, then what other school would be better than being at osu? Yea I would have been impressed.

If you are an offensive recruit looking at just those two schools then you have the choice of being in a position to fail with a coach that walks up and down the sideline cursing loudly to himself or tressel who got craig freaking Krenzel a paycheck in the nfl.

[ButlerWolverine]

When you say conduct themselves like grown ups on the sidelines, does that mean grown up like Woody Hayes? I have no problem seeing some fire on the sidelines. Football is an emotional and physical game. I'd much rather have Satan prowling the sidelines than an accountant in a girly girl vest.

[NorCal Buckeye]

Atmosphere outside the stadium was about the same as I remember it in November 1997, though it was BITTER cold that day. Inside... totally different.

* When we arrived (about 11 AM) in the stadium, there was red everywhere. I expected it to be swallowed by the maize and blue faithful by kickoff but it didn't happen. Its been documented. The fans in my section (section 2) were more concerned with where they were being displaced than watching and yelling during the game. THE ONLY TIME they stood up was when we stood up in front of them and at halftime. So disappointing.

* The student section was about 75% full at kickoff. I can't believe that. I know UM fans are notorious (students) for being late, but cmon.. for OSU when their fans had been in there and cheering from 11 AM on?

* The student section was pretty loud, but the stadium overall didn't impress.. likely because there were 20k OSU fans being silent at the right time. So, there may be more overall noise when 100k fans are UM's way, but not on Saturday.

* The UM band was pretty quiet compared to the OSU band. We could hardly hear them across the stadium. Sure, they're far away, but OSU was blaring the other way and they were loud and clear.

* RECRUITS - This is a question to OSU FANS on this board. As usual, Tressel did what he had to do to put his team in the safest position to win. And, after going up 14-3, against a hated rival, he sat on the ball, ran it nonstop and basically dared UM's offense to beat them (which it nearly did). Do you think that impresses recruits? This isn't a homer question, and im not saying that a recruit looks at a losing team and thinks better of them than the winner. But, if a top recruit watched that game, and saw how TP could run at times, but really couldn't throw the ball well at all and saw how close to the vest Tressel played it for 1/2 the game.. is that a place you'd want to go?

* MIchigan was able to move the ball on the OSU defense more than a couple of the Chad Henne teams and while they were utterly frustrating at times with the awful switching back and forth at the QB position (and predictable playcalling), they still gained the same overall yardage as OSU.. though 80% of it was passing.

* Tate's arm/shoulder is clearly dead right now. Its been weak for 2 months and sadly, i think it has resonated down his arm where it causes some of the awful fumbles he's had. He's probably been unable to lift weights normally and has been taking it easy to keep his arm in decent shape for games. But, he had NO life on the ball for most of his throws. When he sets and throws, its decent, but when he's moving, that extract oomph he needs just isn't there like it was early on.

* I don't know what they said on TV or what it looked like but there were some horrible non-calls in the first half that stifled UM's momentum. The one that sticks out to me was the non-call on the PASS INT on robinson. He was about to run past the guy... the guy grabbed him.. then tackled him as he went up to catch it.. ball tipped to OSU and they got it back. Another seemingly non-call on an out-route right before the missed FG in the first half. I wonder how the game turns out with a couple calls our way.

Another 9 months of waiting.. sadly, bball, as fun as it is, just isn't the same as UM football.

My wife, a non-UM grad from the DC area felt my pain and said... "In 2 years, we'll come back and watch them win." I hope so....

GO BLUE!

LOL! Making the right decision as a recruit? Hmmm, let's see...lol?

OSU sends more players to the NFL than anybody else. Has more Heisman trophy winners than anybody else. Has more national championships than anybody else. Has won the Big Ten Conference championship more than anybody else. Has won 5 straight conference championships. Has beaten arch rival Michigan 6 straight times and 8 of the last 9. Has got a fan base and alum support network second to none. Do you need anymore reasons?

All any recruit had to do at the game was to look around Michigan Stadium and note all of the OSU fans in attendance to figure out which would be the BEST university to go to. Hands down, it's a no-brainer. OSU trumps UM in recruiting.

Any other questions? Remember, there is no such thing as a dumb question.:rolleyes:

[amazinblue]

Any other questions? Remember, there is no such thing as a dumb question.:rolleyes:

NorCal,

There may not be dumb questions - but, there certainly are dumb answers. I'm willing to be that most here with half a brain would place the majority of your posts in the "dumb answer" column.

[NorCal Buckeye]

NorCal,

There may not be dumb questions - but, there certainly are dumb answers. I'm willing to be that most here with half a brain would place the majority of your posts in the "dumb answer" column.

Oh yeah? If I'm so dumb and you're so smart why does your signature line say AMAZINBLUESUX?

See if you can figure that one out, Einstein. LMFAO!:D

[cartyboi]

LOL! Making the right decision as a recruit? Hmmm, let's see...lol?

OSU sends more players to the NFL than anybody else. Has more Heisman trophy winners than anybody else. Has more national championships than anybody else. Has won the Big Ten Conference championship more than anybody else. Has won 5 straight conference championships. Has beaten arch rival Michigan 6 straight times and 8 of the last 9. Has got a fan base and alum support network second to none. Do you need anymore reasons?

All any recruit had to do at the game was to look around Michigan Stadium and note all of the OSU fans in attendance to figure out which would be the BEST university to go to. Hands down, it's a no-brainer. OSU trumps UM in recruiting.

Any other questions? Remember, there is no such thing as a dumb question.:rolleyes:
Show me where you have sent more players to the NFL.


Also, Show me in what world you have more B10 Championships than Michigan. I'd love to see where you dug THAT one up!

[amazinblue]

Oh yeah? If I'm so dumb and you're so smart why does your signature line say AMAZINBLUESUX?

See if you can figure that one out, Einstein. LMFAO!:D

My signature line is what it is because I made a wager - I had high expectations for Michigan's team - and lost that wager.

What really surprises me - Mr. Einstein - is that you had a wonderful opportunity to really write something intelligent and creative that described why OSU is so superior to Michigan - something that I would have had to put on my footer - and, the best you could come up with is "AMAZINBLUESUX".

Tell me - did you actually graduate from the University of Ohio State, or do you just pretend like you did?

[NorCal Buckeye]

My signature line is what it is because I made a wager - I had high expectations for Michigan's team - and lost that wager.

What really surprises me - Mr. Einstein - is that you had a wonderful opportunity to really write something intelligent and creative that described why OSU is so superior to Michigan - something that I would have had to put on my footer - and, the best you could come up with is "AMAZINBLUESUX".

Tell me - did you actually graduate from the University of Ohio State, or do you just pretend like you did?

Expectations are no substitute for intelligence.

As for the signature line I figured I better keep it simple enough so your brethren could understand it.

Go Buckeyes!:D

[buckeye7]

Show me where you have sent more players to the NFL.


Also, Show me in what world you have more B10 Championships than Michigan. I'd love to see where you dug THAT one up!

http://http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-footballfactories031609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-footballfactories031609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) This is only since '99. OSU is in the lead by # of draft picks.

[amazinblue]

This is only since '99. OSU is in the lead by # of draft picks.

Oh - so OSU is leading in draft picks, but not in number of players actually PLAYING in the NFL.

Perhaps you could also pull the data from the CFL, Arena Football League, European NFL, Japanese and Chinese NFL, and the Football League of Lichtenstein.

[eyesoftexas]

I agree... with that statement. But I'm asking why I would want to go to either school!!

That said, the "berating" part has been over-documented and over-analyzed and its constantly a back and forth between whether he's really berating his players or if its just interpreted that way.

I think he comes off looking like a total prick on camera, but that doesn't mean he actually is one.

What I found interesting is that the student population seemed to be really behind RR. Usually students are the first to turn coat and boo etc.. but they were solidly in his corner.

RR seems like he's not that bad of a guy but seems like he's constantly struggling to stay above water.

If he gets this thing eventually turned around.. (8-4 next year, 9-3 the next etc..), I have to wonder if he thinks this is even worth it? I could see him taking off again to the shock of UM fans everywhere. Something never sat right about him and that funny feeling still won't go away.

You go to OSU because you're going to a BCS bowl or you grew up in Ohio. OSU is "it" for kids growing up in Ohio (sorry UC). You go to Michigan because of the tradition, just like ND.

[RADRACING]

VI,

I agree that Perception is reality - no doubt about it. And, what I see in RR is the following - a head coach that's on top of the team - a very young team and directing them when problems occur.

For those who feel RR generates a negative perception - my question is this - how many headsets did Bo break when he was the head coach? And, do you think Bo might have been perceived as being as demanding as RR - or, do you feel that Bo was even more demanding than RR?

Bo and Woody could be tough but they both had a good side, an intelligent side and could be charming. RR I see the tough side but his other side I don't see the intelligence or charm, just a hick from WVa.

[amazinblue]

RR I see the tough side but his other side I don't see the intelligence or charm, just a hick from WVa.

Rad,

This is where we differ. I believe RR and the staff are really building a solid environment at Michigan. A VERY tight team - and a place where alumni (like those in the NFL) will come back often to both visit and train...

I like his directness and respect the culture that's being built... it's not easy and he has my respect for that.

[AlwaysBlue]

LOL! Making the right decision as a recruit? Hmmm, let's see...lol?

OSU sends more players to the NFL than anybody else. Has more Heisman trophy winners than anybody else. Has more national championships than anybody else. Has won the Big Ten Conference championship more than anybody else. Has won 5 straight conference championships. Has beaten arch rival Michigan 6 straight times and 8 of the last 9. Has got a fan base and alum support network second to none. Do you need anymore reasons?

All any recruit had to do at the game was to look around Michigan Stadium and note all of the OSU fans in attendance to figure out which would be the BEST university to go to. Hands down, it's a no-brainer. OSU trumps UM in recruiting.

Any other questions? Remember, there is no such thing as a dumb question.:rolleyes:

Maybe you should look at the question again. And maybe instead of typing "LOL" 93 times, you should think about the question being asked.

I didn't ask "WHy would anyone choose OSU vs. UM?" I asked... if you were a recruit, based on what you saw from OSU on OFFENSE (its a fair point that yes, if youre a defensive recruit, that WOULD have been impressive), would that spur you to get excited about playing there?

But, there's no point explaining since youre too busy laughing out loud... and following it with a question mark?

Moron.

[NorCal Buckeye]

Maybe you should look at the question again. And maybe instead of typing "LOL" 93 times, you should think about the question being asked.

I didn't ask "WHy would anyone choose OSU vs. UM?" I asked... if you were a recruit, based on what you saw from OSU on OFFENSE (its a fair point that yes, if youre a defensive recruit, that WOULD have been impressive), would that spur you to get excited about playing there?

But, there's no point explaining since youre too busy laughing out loud... and following it with a question mark?

Moron.

LOL! Do we see an unhappy wolverine here, trying to lash out with some pitiful example of internet name calling? Shame, shame, sir.

Me thinks Mr. Moderator needs to set you straight about forum etiquette.

Now go have yourself a good cry about the UM football, and get it all off your chest. LOL!:D:D

[AlwaysBlue]

No........ just answer the question. If you're trying to provoke me, :)... it wont work. If you can have an intelligent conversation, rather than the normal bitching/drivel that these threads devolve into, great! If not, it is what it is.

Just curious if OSU fans view Tressel the way UM fans viewed Carr in 2000.

[JimBo Schembechler]

LOL! Making the right decision as a recruit? Hmmm, let's see...lol?

OSU sends more players to the NFL than anybody else. Has more Heisman trophy winners than anybody else. Has more national championships than anybody else. Has won the Big Ten Conference championship more than anybody else. Has won 5 straight conference championships. Has beaten arch rival Michigan 6 straight times and 8 of the last 9. Has got a fan base and alum support network second to none. Do you need anymore reasons?



Fail.

Crack a fuggin' book sometime, junior.

[Vested_Interest]

AlwaysBlue,


...I'm asking why I would want to go to either school!!

Michigan's problem, that "perception is reality", is Ohio State's problem as well. The "national perception" surrounding our conference (and Ohio State in particular) has been largely shaped and solidified on the field over the last few seasons. The criticism and the skepticism has thereby been justified and will continue to be so until our conference distinguishes itself positively OOC ...and especially in post-season play. In the meantime, outside of the long-standing 'bases', recruiting will be adversely effected in varying degrees for both schools.

However, looking objectively as possible at the respective states of the programs as they stand today, I think the recruits pursued by both schools would have to lean in favor of Ohio State.

Regarding Rodriguez:


What I found interesting is that the student population seemed to be really behind RR. Usually students are the first to turn coat and boo etc.. but they were solidly in his corner.

Hey, there's no accounting for the stupidity of youth.


RR seems like he's not that bad of a guy but seems like he's constantly struggling to stay above water. [...]If he gets this thing eventually turned around.. (8-4 next year, 9-3 the next etc..), I have to wonder if he thinks this is even worth it? [...]

Judging by some of the things he's said and done (as well as some of the things he hasn't said or done to extinguish the brush fires of yesterday that are now the forest fires of today), I think he's clearly in over his head at Michigan. It's not his fault that he took over a program with a fan/alum-base so clearly divided to begin with, but he is largely to blame for the widening of that rift.


...I could see him taking off again to the shock of UM fans everywhere.[...]

And the fact that you see him as a potential quitter (presumably in light of his less than honorable departure from WVU) is more a commentary on Rodriguez the person than it is on Rodriguez the Coach.


...Something never sat right about him and that funny feeling still won't go away.

From an outsider's perspective, the entire transition has been a scandal-ridden nightmare of record/streak-breaking proportions. Add to this the uncertainty of an ongoing investigation, and there's really very little reason for the present state of the program to "sit right" with anyone possessed of a non-deluded opinion.

But rest assured, AlwaysBlue, with faith so far gone and hope dwindling by a strand of a thread, I don't see how the opportunity to cut bait on the cheap can be passed by without serious consideration ...if and when it presents itself in the early months of the new year.

[amazinblue]

And the fact that you see him as a potential quitter (presumably in light of his less than honorable departure from WVU) is more a commentary on Rodriguez the person than it is on Rodriguez the Coach.

Vest,

You, and so many others, try to fuel a fire regarding RR - and, I find it as, or perhaps more, frustrating than others here. I have a question for you - why do you think RR is at Michigan and not at Alabama? After all, Bama was going to give him more cash a few years ago - they went after him hard - and, he said no. So, why is RR at Michigan?

My opinoin is this - someone that RR knew when he was younger - talked to him about the job at Michigan. Apparently, this guy thought he knew something about Michigan's program - it's tradition and history - and, supposedly, this guy also heard some stuff about being a "Michigan Man" - and the qualities that are possessed by them.

RR kept in touch with this guy on occassion. And, about two years ago - this guy mentioned that Michigan was a very special job.

So, who was this guy - who possibly could have influenced RR to leave his alma mater and accept the position as Michigan's head coach. It was this "nobody" named Don Nehlen. Who was Don Nehlen? Sure, Don was not only RR's head coach at West Virginia - and RR succeeded him as WVU's head coach. But, what could Nehlen possibly know about Michigan? Heck, he was the head coach at West Virginia.

Before arriving at West Virginia, Nehlen had been the head coach for Bowling Green, and left Bowling Green to become OC for some guy named Bo Schembechler. He was OC from 1977 through 1979 - two first place conference finishes and one third during those three years. I'm guessing that Nehlen understood a LOT more about Michigan football and the commitment required than 99 and 3/4% of the folks posting here or on other web sites. Now, I'm sure several of you here will say that Nehlen wasn't a "real" Michigan Man - or spout some other bs - and, I disagree. I think Nehlen instilled the same approach and values at WVU that Bo did at Michigan - and RR learned from Nehlen - a Michigan Man (for those who insist on this for some reason). I think RR will do a lot of very good things in Ann Arbor - I'm looking forward to seeing this team do it.