Gardner out of rivals top 100.

[goblue]

Gardner is now down to #132 from about #50 according to www.rivals.com. According to Michigan and rivals recruiting expert Josh Helmholdt, Gardner had some rough patches at the under armour game a couple weeks back and his mechanics have slightly reverted back to where they were as a junior. That dropped his stock in the eyes of some analysts.

Helmholdt still thinks Gardner is the most important recruit for Michigan in this class, but he will have to contend with Tate Forcier and Denard Robinson for pt next fall.

Helmholdt also said this is the lowest class he has covered at Michigan, and that no doubt 3-9 in 2008 contributed to that.

I'm not sure what to think of all these rankings now. Scout still has Gardner at #39. I just hope that RR has the players that he needs to succeed.

[tpilews]

Those rankings are a big joke. You've got a person like Torian Wilson, who was ranked the #2 OG in the class. He missed all but the first game his senior season. His ranking dropped like a fly. Understandable, right?

Sure, well, what about Gabe King? He's the #30 ranked player in the nation. He was ranked that high when the initial rankings came out and hasn't moved since then, despite not playing in ANY of his HS's games his senior season.

[cartyboi]

What about Mike Hart? A small running back that was 3 stars. If you remember correctly, it was David Underwood who was supposed to start for Michigan that year.

[goblue]

Just a few days ago someone had Michigan's recruiting class as #20 and said that was good. I questioned whether #20 is good or not. Michigan annually used to make the top 10 recruiting classes. Now I'm sure it's even lower than #20.

Last I heard Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan State had the top three recruiting classes in the Big Ten. I'm sure William Gholston's jump to #21 and 5 star status moved MSU up.

There will be no excuses for RR this year though. I think he'll gave to win 7 or 8 games to even have a chance of staying around for 2011.

[TheHoff]

He should be in the top 30, IMO. There's guys it he top 5 who doesn't have blue chip in every category, and Devin Gardner does.

[rickyleach]

dont worry we still have nick sheriden so we will be ok.

[Columbusisawhore]

Bite your tongue Rickyleach

[tpilews]

Devin has a ton of work to do on his mechanics and processing of the game. He's a redshirt candidate for sure.

[rickyleach]

Bite your tongue Rickyleach

i know , i couldnt resist , gardner will be everything we need.

[tpilews]

Despite all the "tweeners" there appear to be in UM class, they've filled positions of need with great talent. QB - Gardner (5 Star to scout), CB - Christian (4 Star to both - 3rd ranked CB to scout) LB - Furman (4 star), Safety - Parker (soon to be), Marvin Robinson (4 star), P - Hagerup (top punter in class). WR/TE Miller (4 star), WR Robinson (4 star - great speed). UM also got some solid guys to fill depth that have potential to be breakout players. They may need a year or two to develop, but they show great potential.

Overall, not a great class, but filled holes with some great players and some good depth.

[Sten Carlson]

Overall, not a great class, but filled holes with some great players and some good depth.

Personally, I don't think the rating of the class, at this point in RR's tenure, is all that important. I say that because, as he showed at WVU (although it was in the Big East and not the Big 10) RR seems to be able to craft his recruits, regardless of their star level, into a very efficient and effective squad (at least offensively).

I think that if anything has been proven over the last decade of college football, at least to me, is that historically "lesser" programs can rise to national prominence based upon sound development and effective schemes.

I think the University of Texas is perfect example of this at work, although on the opposite end of the spectrum. Texas has had unparalleled success, and has a pretty easy recruiting situation. However, despite all the star power that arrives on campus every year, Texas had two glaring holes in their program: QB depth, and their lack of a "stud" RB.

Personally, I am shocked that the only other QB that UT has is a true freshman. With all the wealth of talent in TX, you'd think that there would be at least a RS Jr. or something. That is the double-edged sword with having such highly recruited player on your roster -- it makes other less highly recruited players shy away from coming to the program. The same is true with UT's RB situation. You cannot tell me that there aren't dozens of stud RBs coming out of TX high schools, yet UT hasn't had a great RB since Cedric Benson.

So, coming back to the situation with Michigan, I think the reliance upon good, but perhaps not "great" prospects is just fine. Get a bunch of good athletes in the program, all of whom want to be there, want to compete for the starting position, but also feel fortunate to be at Michigan and who don't have wandering eyes for other programs if they find themselves down the depth chart a bit. Obviously, there are always going to be players that leave as they think they should be playing more, etc. But the point is that if you get the big fish, and other players avoid coming because they don't want to sit behind that player, you expose yourself to HUGE gaps in your depth chart. It could work out, or it could come back to haunt you as it did for TX in the NC in which they basically had no chance once McCoy was knocked out.

A well developed former 3 star recruit is just as good, as sometimes even better, than a former 5 star recruit in the long run, many times.

I don't think that people should stress too much about where Michigan's classes fall on the ranking system. Let RR get guys that he wants on the team -- he has REASONS why he wants them, and I can assure you it's not because of their star ranking.

[RADRACING]

I don't think that people should stress too much about where Michigan's classes fall on the ranking system. Let RR get guys that he wants on the team -- he has REASONS why he wants them, and I can assure you it's not because of their star ranking.

Question: Do you think RR is really getting the guys he wants, or is he just getting the guys he can get?

[tpilews]

Question: Do you think RR is really getting the guys he wants, or is he just getting the guys he can get?

Probably a bit of both. However, that's what happens when 3-9 and 5-7 happens. A lot of top-tier recruits want to go to established schools. It takes a special athlete to be part of a rebuilding project. RR has done a great job identifying the right athletes for the rebuild. UM will be reaping the benefits of this in the next 2-3 years. And when that happens, your 4 and 5 star recruits will come to UM.

[Blue In Ohio]

I guess the only thing I think of is that if losing hurts recruiting so bad then how the heck did Notre Dame get top classes and recruits in there year after year of losing over the last three seasons?

[amazinblue]

I think what Michigan needs are players / recruits that are willing to put in the effort to turn this around and make up for the holes in the depth chart that had been building for a while. The challenge is - they'll be facing opponents who have more time in their respective programs - and who are upperclassmen - three, four, or five years older and more developed than they are. The benefit is that they'll get early playing time - and by the time they are upper classmen - the team will be deep on both sides of the ball - and across the board...

Then - it will be "reload" time - with players competing for playing time as freshmen if they are amazing standouts and exceptional. The other key is this - you've got to make sure the entire team remains motivated. I think the problem USC has had - and may continue to have - is motivating all of these five star players. We've seen several USC QB's and RB's leave the program in recent seasons because their playing time is not what they had hoped or expected.

The pipeline is what I'm hoping to see built. Young men - recruited at the right time - to fit into the program and develop while in it. They would ideally see playing time during their RS FR season - a bit - fourth quarter stuff. Then, as they become Sophs - you'll see more - and some will even find starting assignments on occassion - because of injuries. Then, as they become juniors / seniors / fifth years - they'll be a force to be reckoned with.

[RADRACING]

What I heard was that ND's classes even though very highly rated the players wern't that great. when they were at the Army games people would say ND players arent performing very good. Could be since everything at ND is over rated the the players ranking went up for no reason other than the went to ND. Also ND had good classes but USC, Florida and Texas and such were pulling in the very top classes.

[Sten Carlson]

Question: Do you think RR is really getting the guys he wants, or is he just getting the guys he can get?

I agree, it's a bit of both. No coach, at any school, get's all the recruits that he wants, so there is always a bit of taking what you can get -- it's just that every program tries to minimize it as best they can. There are some lucky programs, and perhaps in it's heyday Michigan was one of them, that got pretty close to getting everyone that they wanted. But, the last three seasons -- 2007, 2008, and 2009 -- have really put a dent in Michigan's image nationally. When you add into that equation the recent losses to OSU, and you see that unfortunately, Michigan isn't in the commanding position that it once was.

So for now, RR and his staff are going to get the ones that they can, and take the ones that they can get.

Personally, as I said, I think RR has the skill set necessary to get the most out those players that are perhaps lesser recruits on the nations scene -- he learned to do that throughout his career. Perhaps that was part of the problem with Carr -- he was brought up through a system that was used to getting the pick of the litter, players that weren't as rough around the edges, the polished recruits. When JT arrived at OSU and the Northern Ohio well dried up a bit, and PC was at USC and the California well dried up, etc., Carr wasn't used to having to really train and coach the lesser recognized recruits the way that RR is -- they said he ran his practices a lot more like NFL practices than RR does by contrast.

I think it remains to be seen if RR is up to the task. So far, as you've pointed out repeatedly Rad, he's not fared so well. But, I think that 2010 is going to be a watershed year, and I have a sinking suspicion that people are really going to like what they see from the team. I don't think they'll "be 100% there" just yet, but I think a great deal of the ire and hatred directed at RR will diminish as the vision that he has for the future of Michigan football will become MUCH more apparent. The next two seasons, IMO, are going to go a long way to tipping the ratio that is the focus of this question, and by 2012 I thing think RR's Michigan squad will be competing for the top recruiting classes in the nation once again.

It just takes a bit of time to get everything in place.

[Bighouse]

Probably a bit of both. However, that's what happens when 3-9 and 5-7 happens. A lot of top-tier recruits want to go to established schools. It takes a special athlete to be part of a rebuilding project. RR has done a great job identifying the right athletes for the rebuild. UM will be reaping the benefits of this in the next 2-3 years. And when that happens, your 4 and 5 star recruits will come to UM.
I hope RR can even make it that far. Next year he MUST improve greatly I'm affraid.

[Revelli]

Question: Do you think RR is really getting the guys he wants, or is he just getting the guys he can get?

Personally, I think he is not going after the 5 star guys because they are ego cases. If they don't like how much work he is going to make them do they will transfer out and maintain a perpetual cycle of bad teams at Michigan. (See Justin Boren for an example) Instead, he is going after the 3-4 star guys until he has time to mold them into something good, and can establish a culture of extremely hard workers who give maximum effort at Michigan. That way, he gets positive results (eventually) and any 5 star who he finally starts going after will come to Ann Arbor where everyone around him is giving 110%. An incoming 5 star guy will just accept it as a difference between High school ball and college ball.

What do you think,... maybe?

[amazinblue]

Personally, I think he is not going after the 5 star guys because they are ego cases. If they don't like how much work he is going to make them do they will transfer out and maintain a perpetual cycle of bad teams at Michigan. (See Justin Boren for an example) Instead, he is going after the 3-4 star guys until he has time to mold them into something good, and can establish a culture of extremely hard workers who give maximum effort at Michigan. That way, he gets positive results (eventually) and any 5 star who he finally starts going after will come to Ann Arbor where everyone around him is giving 110%. An incoming 5 star guy will just accept it as a difference between High school ball and college ball.

What do you think,... maybe?

Revelli,

I think you've described it accurately. As the program returns to a "Top 10" level, you'll see a lot more interest from the four and five star players. They key is - what are those players made of? Are they prima donnas, or are they willing to really bust their behinds in the weight room and in practice. If they are prima donnas (i.e. Mallett) - then, they can go elsewhere. If however, they're the hard working type and want to make a difference - and potentially start very early in their career - then that's the type of player that will fit in.