What Might Have Been

[Columbusisawhore]

So I was sitting on the sh%$er thinking about Michigan football the other day and got to thinking...

WHAT IF Michigan had hired Ron English as their head coach instead of RR, where would the program be? Honestly, I was totally against them hiring from within during the search, so this will most likely be quite the irrelevant post, BUT here goes anyway.

I think he will be a GREAT head coach some day. He's got a lot of passion, and the guys who play for him absolutely love the guy. I think that if he stayed at Michigan and surrounded himself with a good staff (he would have kept solid coordinators like Loeffler (the best QB coach Michigan has had in a long time), and possibly would have brought in some new blood to strengthen his staff. There's no question that he can motivate and that his players love him.

Michigan wouldn't have been on the hook for a 2.5 million dollar breach of contract with another school, they wouldn't have had to pay English the kind of money they are paying Rodriguez, and probably would have had better overall results in the win column. I'd love to have the guy back on the sidelines in Ann Arbor... what are the chances we could get him to take Hopson's vacant spot on staff?

Look, I'm not saying that Michigan screwed up in hiring RR. Time will tell on that one. IMO he's probably going to be given next year and should probably be given a 4th year before any REAL judgement and criticism is made. I'm hoping the guy can turn things around this year and will honestly tell you that I expect nothing less than 8 wins and a new years day bowl out of this squad. Here's hoping that this team gets their crap together and starts to win games.

[goblue]

So I was sitting on the sh%$er thinking about Michigan football the other day and got to thinking...

WHAT IF Michigan had hired Ron English as their head coach instead of RR, where would the program be? Honestly, I was totally against them hiring from within during the search, so this will most likely be quite the irrelevant post, BUT here goes anyway.

I think he will be a GREAT head coach some day. He's got a lot of passion, and the guys who play for him absolutely love the guy. I think that if he stayed at Michigan and surrounded himself with a good staff (he would have kept solid coordinators like Loeffler (the best QB coach Michigan has had in a long time), and possibly would have brought in some new blood to strengthen his staff. There's no question that he can motivate and that his players love him.

Michigan wouldn't have been on the hook for a 2.5 million dollar breach of contract with another school, they wouldn't have had to pay English the kind of money they are paying Rodriguez, and probably would have had better overall results in the win column. I'd love to have the guy back on the sidelines in Ann Arbor... what are the chances we could get him to take Hopson's vacant spot on staff?

Look, I'm not saying that Michigan screwed up in hiring RR. Time will tell on that one. IMO he's probably going to be given next year and should probably be given a 4th year before any REAL judgement and criticism is made. I'm hoping the guy can turn things around this year and will honestly tell you that I expect nothing less than 8 wins and a new years day bowl out of this squad. Here's hoping that this team gets their crap together and starts to win games.

I thought the same thing about Michigan hiring English to be the head coach in Carr's last days. He was the one responsible for Michigan's turnaround on defense in 2006 when they were undefeated up until Ohio State. I thought Bo Pelini should also have been considered.

But it was a no win situation. Michigan was too prideful into hiring a coach without first establishing themselves as a decent head coach. English and Pelini had no head coaching experience at the time. Nebraska took that chance with Pelini and now have about the best defense in the nation.

[Nuno B.]

So I was sitting on the sh%$er thinking about Michigan football the other day and got to thinking...

WHAT IF Michigan had hired Ron English as their head coach instead of RR, where would the program be? Honestly, I was totally against them hiring from within during the search, so this will most likely be quite the irrelevant post, BUT here goes anyway.

I think he will be a GREAT head coach some day. He's got a lot of passion, and the guys who play for him absolutely love the guy. I think that if he stayed at Michigan and surrounded himself with a good staff (he would have kept solid coordinators like Loeffler (the best QB coach Michigan has had in a long time), and possibly would have brought in some new blood to strengthen his staff. There's no question that he can motivate and that his players love him.

Michigan wouldn't have been on the hook for a 2.5 million dollar breach of contract with another school, they wouldn't have had to pay English the kind of money they are paying Rodriguez, and probably would have had better overall results in the win column. I'd love to have the guy back on the sidelines in Ann Arbor... what are the chances we could get him to take Hopson's vacant spot on staff?

Look, I'm not saying that Michigan screwed up in hiring RR. Time will tell on that one. IMO he's probably going to be given next year and should probably be given a 4th year before any REAL judgement and criticism is made. I'm hoping the guy can turn things around this year and will honestly tell you that I expect nothing less than 8 wins and a new years day bowl out of this squad. Here's hoping that this team gets their crap together and starts to win games.

Your post tells me that you hope more than expect an 8 year bowl season in '10. I think REAL judgement is warranted immediately.

[Blue In Ohio]

Michigan didn't have a problem in the past hiring an inexperienced head coach as their head coach with the hiring of Carr or hiring a head coach that was not a proven winner with the hiring of Moeller. I liked Ron English too.

[Wolvrin704]

I liked Ron as well but lets face it, his defenses gave up a ton of points and still did not perform fundamentals well, especially open field tackles.

[Columbusisawhore]

I tend to disagree with that.

2003 Secondary:
180.5 YPG
14 Int.
2TD

2004 Secondary:
202.9 Passing YPG
16 Int.
2 TD

2005 Secondary:
207.8 Passing YPG
12 Int.

Average of all three years as a secondary coach:
197 Passing YPG allowed
14 Int.
1.66 TD

2006:
15.9 PPG allowed
268.3 yds total offense per game
43.4 Rushing allowed per game
224.9 Passing allowed per game
12 Int
19 Forced Fumbles and 14 of those recovered...
3 Defensive TD

2007 (After losing Leon Hall, Lamar Woodley, Alan Branch, David Harris and Prescott Burgess) and having an injury-riddled offense that couldn't stay on the field vs. Oregon, OSU, Wisconsin:
21.4 PPG
336.6 YPG
178.8 Passing allowed per game
156.8 Rushing allowed per game
14 Int
30 Forced Fumbles 15 recovered
...yeah the numbers dropped off, but look at the big picture of the circumstances surrounding the defensive drop off.

I think the guy was fiery and his players were willing to go to war for him. He'd have been a good if not great HC at Michigan and honestly, I think 2007's D was a fluke when it comes to this guy.

[The Michigan Man]

I liked Ron as well but lets face it, his defenses gave up a ton of points and still did not perform fundamentals well, especially open field tackles.

That's it in a nutshell.

I loved what English did with the secondary, but he never got the defense to play to its potential as DC. There is no way that Michigan scores nearly 40 points on tUOS in 06, in Columbus, and LOSES. Then getting worked over by USC, at home by App St, and then again by Oregon. Hell, the defense tried to give away the Florida game after 2007, but Henne, Long, and Hart wouldn't have it.

I wish English the best of luck at EMU or wherever he goes next, but he wasn't the right guy to be HC at Michigan, at least not at this point in his career.

[NorCal Buckeye]

I tend to disagree with that.

2003 Secondary:
180.5 YPG
14 Int.
2TD

2004 Secondary:
202.9 Passing YPG
16 Int.
2 TD

2005 Secondary:
207.8 Passing YPG
12 Int.

Average of all three years as a secondary coach:
197 Passing YPG allowed
14 Int.
1.66 TD

2006:
15.9 PPG allowed
268.3 yds total offense per game
43.4 Rushing allowed per game
224.9 Passing allowed per game
12 Int
19 Forced Fumbles and 14 of those recovered...
3 Defensive TD

2007 (After losing Leon Hall, Lamar Woodley, Alan Branch, David Harris and Prescott Burgess) and having an injury-riddled offense that couldn't stay on the field vs. Oregon, OSU, Wisconsin:
21.4 PPG
336.6 YPG
178.8 Passing allowed per game
156.8 Rushing allowed per game
14 Int
30 Forced Fumbles 15 recovered
...yeah the numbers dropped off, but look at the big picture of the circumstances surrounding the defensive drop off.

I think the guy was fiery and his players were willing to go to war for him. He'd have been a good if not great HC at Michigan and honestly, I think 2007's D was a fluke when it comes to this guy.

It's really hard to see how he could have done any worse than Rodriguez! Come on! 3-9? 5-7? Tied for last in the conference? All the other bad records broken? Hell, I could coach better than Rodriguez just by hiring a competent OC, DC, and staying out of their way.

Good luck getting this mess cleaned up any time soon.:eek:

[TheHoff]

It's really hard to see how he could have done any worse than Rodriguez! Come on! 3-9? 5-7? Tied for last in the conference? All the other bad records broken? Hell, I could coach better than Rodriguez just by hiring a competent OC, DC, and staying out of their way.

Good luck getting this mess cleaned up any time soon.:eek:


Wow, I honestly can't believe you just said that. Even for you this surprises me, had we not, DRASTICALLY switched from 130 years of ProStyle offense to the Spread Read Option, no we wouldn't have done as bad. But to say, you, yourself, could have done better, is completely off the wall and asinine.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

What might have been? While we're on the subject.

How about that Carr offense in the Florida game---aggressive. How about having that style, in some of the years' previous games(before the Florida game---when we had potential). I would've loved to win (or even lose a few) with that style. There was a lot of heart though in that game, but the aggression/play calling, was nicely done.

Edit: this isn't a anti RR post...

I gotta admit, I had a fantasy about Carr waking up to realizing that may be the way to do things---"here on out".

[Wolvrin704]

It's really hard to see how he could have done any worse than Rodriguez! Come on! 3-9? 5-7? Tied for last in the conference? All the other bad records broken? Hell, I could coach better than Rodriguez just by hiring a competent OC, DC, and staying out of their way.

Good luck getting this mess cleaned up any time soon.:eek:

Exhibit A.

More thoughts on the topic....

I can agree that English was a good secondary coach but part way through the 2007 season I remember wishing the Bears had hired him instead of UM promoting him. He was not good as a DC, and part of the subpar defensive recruiting in 2006-2007 has to be laid at his feet as well.

As DC there was just game after game where the other team scored far more than they should have and our experienced offense had to bail them out. Perhaps he turns into a good HC, time will tell. I do hope he has success, but there's a reason that the best HC job he could get was at Eastern.

[NorCal Buckeye]

What might have been? While we're on the subject.

How about that Carr offense in the Florida game---aggressive. How about having that style, in some of the years' previous games(before the Florida game---when we had potential). I would've loved to win (or even lose a few) with that style. There was a lot of heart though in that game, but the aggression/play calling, was nicely done.

Edit: this isn't a anti RR post...

I gotta admit, I had a fantasy about Carr waking up to realizing that may be the way to do things---"here on out".

I watched Lloyd say, while walking off the field after the Florida game, that what you saw in the Florida game offensively from Michigan was what you would have seen all year in every game if Henne had not been injured. He went on the mention that it is difficult for a quarterback to throw well with a separated shoulder injury. Carr did blame that disappointing season on injury problems. Didn't Henne separate his shoulder early in the season, Appy State, or Oregon? Plus Heisman candidate Hart had a bad knee pretty much all year too, right? Those kinds of things could hold your offense back, which in turn puts your defense on the field too long.

In any event, the Rodriguez hire so far has proven to be a catastrophe.:(

[Wolvrin704]

I watched Lloyd say, while walking off the field after the Florida game, that what you saw in the Florida game offensively from Michigan was what you would have seen all year in every game if Henne had not been injured. He went on the mention that it is difficult for a quarterback to throw well with a separated shoulder injury. Carr did blame that disappointing season on injury problems. Didn't Henne separate his shoulder early in the season, Appy State, or Oregon? Plus Heisman candidate Hart had a bad knee pretty much all year too, right? Those kinds of things could hold your offense back, which in turn puts your defense on the field too long.

In any event, the Rodriguez hire so far has proven to be a catastrophe.:(

We were told that year by NUT that we were not allowed to use those injuries as excuses. ;)

BTW, as I recall Henne got hurt against Oregon and ended up missing 3-4 games.

[Blue In Ohio]

After seeing how badly 2005-2008 classes panned out in another post I'd say that no matter who we got in here it still would have been a train wreck. The best coaches in the game have to have talent. Take away all of Pete Carrol's 5 star players from those USC teams and replace them with 2 and 3 star players and you get a much different result.

[bleed maize & blue]

Exhibit A.

More thoughts on the topic....

I can agree that English was a good secondary coach but part way through the 2007 season I remember wishing the Bears had hired him instead of UM promoting him. He was not good as a DC, and part of the subpar defensive recruiting in 2006-2007 has to be laid at his feet as well.

As DC there was just game after game where the other team scored far more than they should have and our experienced offense had to bail them out. Perhaps he turns into a good HC, time will tell. I do hope he has success, but there's a reason that the best HC job he could get was at Eastern.

I have been reading this post and wonder how anyone that thinks that English would have been a good head coach for Michigan is delusional. How many games did he win at Eastern this year? ZERO!!!

[1OSUNUT]

Maybe just maybe English is waiting untill he gets all his own players in place. You cannot expect a guy to have any sucess untill he gets 3 or 4 classes under is belt - do you ? Let's not judge him so quickly - give him time to show you how good he can be once all the moons and stars line up. Danm - everybody is so quick to judge around here.

[The Michigan Man]

Maybe just maybe English is waiting untill he gets all his own players in place. You cannot expect a guy to have any sucess untill he gets 3 or 4 classes under is belt - do you ? Let's not judge him so quickly - give him time to show you how good he can be once all the moons and stars line up. Danm - everybody is so quick to judge around here.

That is no excuse. English should have adapted his system to use the players he has. He is the worst coach in the history of EMU football, and crapping all over the legacy of EMU. He should be fired immediately - and the next guy damn sure better get to a bowl in the 1st year, or he gets fired. Then they can fire the next guy after him, until someone gets it right - it doesn't matter if they burn throught 10 coaches in 10 years, win now or pack your sh*t and don't let the door hit you in the ass.

[Blue In Ohio]

That is no excuse. English should have adapted his system to use the players he has. He is the worst coach in the history of EMU football, and crapping all over the legacy of EMU. He should be fired immediately - and the next guy damn sure better get to a bowl in the 1st year, or he gets fired. Then they can fire the next guy after him, until someone gets it right - it doesn't matter if they burn throught 10 coaches in 10 years, win now or pack your sh*t and don't let the door hit you in the ass.

LMAO, sounds like a few of the opinions I keep hearing in here. No substance or intellegence just pure emotion.

[TheHoff]

That is no excuse. English should have adapted his system to use the players he has. He is the worst coach in the history of EMU football, and crapping all over the legacy of EMU. He should be fired immediately - and the next guy damn sure better get to a bowl in the 1st year, or he gets fired. Then they can fire the next guy after him, until someone gets it right - it doesn't matter if they burn throught 10 coaches in 10 years, win now or pack your sh*t and don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Sounds like, NUT, NorCal, and RAD all logged in under as you.

[Wolvrin704]

Good times, good times. :D

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

OMG, please, hurry up let's hire Jim Tressel for a UM coach. My god he'd be the perfect fit for Denard. Omg, why didn't they think of this? OMG ABANDON SHIP... ABAND............................................. .........

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

Well, all I know is Henne rifled that ball all day in that Florida game---like a pro would. That was awesome. Something that whole team should feel good about, and Carr. That team would've beaten anyone in the country at that time---I mean it. That's something I'll hold onto forever, and no one can take that away from me.

How about a Henne with legs? How 'bout that... talk about WOW.

[Sten Carlson]

How about a Henne with legs? How 'bout that... talk about WOW.

Yeah, he seems A LOT more mobile than he did in college. Looks like he's lost a lot of weight too. Anyone else see that? Maybe when he got into a real modern S&C program...