what's the deal with ohio recruits?

[militant]

here's a question that i have. i've heard that ted ginn sr. steers most/all of the players on his team away from michigan and towards ohio state. is there any truth to this and if so what are the reasons that any of you have heard?

[bighousemike84]

It is very true, regardless of what Ginn Sr. might say. The reason that I have heard for the cold shoulder from Glenville is that when Lloyd Carr recruited Pierre Woods from Glenville he promised him all sorts of playing time and opportunities. Then Woods gets to Michigan and he felt that he wasnt utilized in the best way possible, that sentiment was shared with his former coaches at Glenville and Michigan has been shut out ever since.

I also think that Ginn Sr. is a buckeye fan that would prefer to see his kids play for Tressel, not that I think Ginn tells his guys not to go to Michigan straight up but I do believe there is an atmopshere at Glenville that is anti Michigan.

[1OSUNUT]

There is a pretty strong anti Michigan feeling thoughout Ohio high schools - just more so at Glenville. This topic has been talked about many times over. There is no doubt Ginn Sr and JT are very close - word is they speak often. Ginn Sr is not a great coach - but he is a great leader and teacher. If I'm not mistaken 3 or 4 of this years kids are on the OSU radar and the QB is being looked at by Iowa. He sends a ton of kids to college and is the only Father many of these kids ever had. Because of how well the Glenville players have been trated by Ohio State and Tressel - the whole community loves Ohio State. The list of players fron there is incredibly good. The Woods issue was a very large reason for the Michigan exclusion - and at the same time Tressel was taking over Ohio State. Tressel had two goals when he took the job at OSU - lock down the boarders (keep as many blue chip Ohio kids as possible) and beat Michigan - he has done both.

Im not saying Michigan can NEVER get a Glenville kid - but it will be few and far between. The school is like an Ohio State feeder program. Tressel was instumental in getting Nike to help them get uniforms and one of the cola companies donated a scoreboard. The Glenville comminity is very very tight and if one of their own was to be a Wolverine - they would still love them but it would not feel right. You can thank Tressel and the sucess he has had and the pride that he has restored at OSU as maybe the single biggest reason why you cannot get our bue chip kids. You can get our second and third tier kids - but normally any highly rated kid we lose ends up at Florida, Texas, Alabama, ND or a top flight school like that. That was a quick cliff notes version of why Ohio kids are no longer in AA.

[tpilews]

What Glenville is to OSU, Cass Tech is to UM.

[Revelli]

There is a pretty strong anti Michigan feeling thoughout Ohio high schools - just more so at Glenville. This topic has been talked about many times over. There is no doubt Ginn Sr and JT are very close - word is they speak often. Ginn Sr is not a great coach - but he is a great leader and teacher. If I'm not mistaken 3 or 4 of this years kids are on the OSU radar and the QB is being looked at by Iowa. He sends a ton of kids to college and is the only Father many of these kids ever had. Because of how well the Glenville players have been trated by Ohio State and Tressel - the whole community loves Ohio State. The list of players fron there is incredibly good. The Woods issue was a very large reason for the Michigan exclusion - and at the same time Tressel was taking over Ohio State. Tressel had two goals when he took the job at OSU - lock down the boarders (keep as many blue chip Ohio kids as possible) and beat Michigan - he has done both.

Im not saying Michigan can NEVER get a Glenville kid - but it will be few and far between. The school is like an Ohio State feeder program. Tressel was instumental in getting Nike to help them get uniforms and one of the cola companies donated a scoreboard. The Glenville comminity is very very tight and if one of their own was to be a Wolverine - they would still love them but it would not feel right. You can thank Tressel and the sucess he has had and the pride that he has restored at OSU as maybe the single biggest reason why you cannot get our bue chip kids. You can get our second and third tier kids - but normally any highly rated kid we lose ends up at Florida, Texas, Alabama, ND or a top flight school like that. That was a quick cliff notes version of why Ohio kids are no longer in AA.

And when (not if) we start beating OSU every year again as we did in the 90's, will this continue? Not that I care that much because many of those Glenville Kids would never fit into RR's ideal recruit mold... thus the new Florida Pipeline.

[bighousemike84]

And when (not if) we start beating OSU every year again as we did in the 90's, will this continue? Not that I care that much because many of those Glenville Kids would never fit into RR's ideal recruit mold... thus the new Florida Pipeline.

I dont know man I would have liked to have Latwan Anderson this season, especially with the depth of the secondary.

[Panzer]

Just remember that when one door closes another one opens. I could care less about Glenville there are great players all over the country that want to and will play for Michigan. With all of the exposure Michigan is getting I look for the recruiting to only get better, but we have to continue to play well. Woods never did anything while he waas here anyway.

[1OSUNUT]

And when (not if) we start beating OSU every year again as we did in the 90's, will this continue? Not that I care that much because many of those Glenville Kids would never fit into RR's ideal recruit mold... thus the new Florida Pipeline.

That is pure speculation. Im sure that is your hope - but we don't see it. Ohio State football will NEVER be left in the hands of a coach who does not get it like Cooper did. It's not only Glenville but it's Ohio players as a whole. The truth is your school and team is not well liked in Ohio. Plus your competing with many big time schools to get our talent. In fact Dantonio and MSU is looked at in better reguards by many.

[amazinblue]

That is pure speculation. Im sure that is your hope - but we don't see it. Ohio State football will NEVER be left in the hands of a coach who does not get it like Cooper did. It's not only Glenville but it's Ohio players as a whole. The truth is your school and team is not well liked in Ohio. Plus your competing with many big time schools to get our talent. In fact Dantonio and MSU is looked at in better reguards by many.

Nut,

So - Earl Bruce Jr won't ever have the opportunity to coach in Columbus? EVER is a long, long time. I know you're so excited about Pelini and the opportunity for him to coach at OSU after JT retires - but, if he brings Nebraska back to prominence (and it seems likes he's doing ok) - maybe he'd stay there.

The only talent Michigan's looking for must have speed. Ohio generates a lot of good players - and, I'm willing to bet - that in the years to come - if you're good, you've "got it" - and from Ohio - that you'll definitely consider Michigan over Michigan State. I know Dantonio coached at OSU and knows Ohio - but, you've said that OSU / JT 'own' Ohio - haven't you? And, the only top tier talent that OSU doesn't get goes to USC, Texas, Florida, etc..

[Wolvrin704]

That is pure speculation. Im sure that is your hope - but we don't see it. Ohio State football will NEVER be left in the hands of a coach who does not get it like Cooper did. It's not only Glenville but it's Ohio players as a whole. The truth is your school and team is not well liked in Ohio. Plus your competing with many big time schools to get our talent. In fact Dantonio and MSU is looked at in better reguards by many.

You're being a little loose with things here NUT. In the Cincy area UM is a little more liked and I know they have a following in the Toledo area. Fact is 10 years ago UM had more of a following in Ohio than they do now because UM was winning and OSU wasn't. People like a winner and when UM gets back to their winning ways things will change. I have lived here 17 years and I can attest that the OSU lovefest has greatly grown over the last 10 years which is accountable to them winning. When the wheels fall off what will happen?

[Panzer]

There are alot of us Michigan fans that were born and raised in Ohio, obviously not as many of us as Buckeye fans but that understandable. Michigan has always pulled talent away from Paterno, Tressel, Cooper and Bruce. We will never get them all but thats understandable. Michigan has a great traditon and legacy and some players just want to be apart of it. This has given Michigan a National fan base much like that of Notre Dame. And honestly some people just can't stand the arrogance of OSU and choose to follow other teams. Another important aspect to remember is that there are alot of people living in Ohio who have roots in other states. Alot of people moved here from out of state for the work opportunities, my family being one of them and roots run deep. I love to tell native Buckeyes that "Ohio is the biggest county in the state of Kentucky" that really pisses them off. Go Blue

[GoBlue21]

That is pure speculation. Im sure that is your hope - but we don't see it. Ohio State football will NEVER be left in the hands of a coach who does not get it like Cooper did. It's not only Glenville but it's Ohio players as a whole. The truth is your school and team is not well liked in Ohio. Plus your competing with many big time schools to get our talent. In fact Dantonio and MSU is looked at in better reguards by many.

Speak for yourself, I've lived in Cincinnati for my whole 30 years and tUOS isn't well liked down here from most of the people I KNOW. Yeah, there are a few Buckeye fans here and there but most of them CAN'T STAND Buckeye fans and dislike the University as a whole. Not that they are Michigan fans, but they DON'T LIKE tUOS. We are talking about Notre Dame fans, USC fans, UC fans, Florida State fans, West Virginia fans, Kentucky fans, Tennessee fans, and Ohio University fans just to name a few. They rag about tUOS and their fans CONSTANTLY. I honestly don't even have to say a word because they do enough ragging for me, it's GREAT!

[1OSUNUT]

Cincy has a D1 school so of course they will have fans that like the Bearcats more then they like Ohio State - but I'm willing to bet there is a pretty good amount of Buckeye fans there as well. I like the way you guys assume because the wheels fell off Michigan that it will happen to Ohio State - almost comical. I'm sure Ohio State will have a down year down the line - but I don't see us having a season like you guys have had the last two years. They just get to good of a player for that to happen. We are not worried about Tressel leaving. First off he is signed for many more years and the list of coaches that would want to coach here would be great. We would not have to settle. I think the Miami game last week showed that Ohio State has become just as fast as any team in the nation - and that was the experts saying that. That was the big Buckeye weakness and it took a few years - but they are finally faster.

Cincy, ND, Alabama, Florida, Texas, Iowa, MSU, all the MAC schools and others all compete for the talent in Ohio. Sure Tressel loses out on a few big names like Hicks last year and DePriest this year - but he also lands a lot. This years class may be one of his best if not his best ever. I find it funny how Ohio State fans are viewed by Michigan fans - when Michigan and ND fans are some of the most hated in the nation. There is nothing wrong with being excited about your team and nobody travels to road games or bowls like Ohio State. Michigan is hated for its arrogance - even though you have nothing to be arrogant over anymore. You guys have been bottom feeders the last two years - yet you still assume your great and a wanted destination of top recruits. Even the kids that did commit are leaving in numbers greater then most schools. Why would a recruit want to come to Michigan - find out he does not like it and have to sit out a year to go somewhere else. If you think other recruits don't see and hear about that - your blind. You can bet your last dollar that the coaches competing with Michigan for players are going to use that against them as well. Look at this years class for instance. the Buckeyes are #4 and could be moving up with a few big signings yet thinking about OSU - Michigan was not in the top 20 yet.

Granted there are kids that have moved to Ohio and do not have the Ohio State bond that many do - but you fail to realize that Michigan is the enemy for the most part. Just because your a Michigan fan living in Ohio does not change that fact - your the vast minority. The Buckeye program has recovered from the Cooper years and those dark days are long behind us.

[tpilews]

Cincy has a D1 school so of course they will have fans that like the Bearcats more then they like Ohio State - but I'm willing to bet there is a pretty good amount of Buckeye fans there as well. I like the way you guys assume because the wheels fell off Michigan that it will happen to Ohio State - almost comical. I'm sure Ohio State will have a down year down the line - but I don't see us having a season like you guys have had the last two years. They just get to good of a player for that to happen. We are not worried about Tressel leaving. First off he is signed for many more years and the list of coaches that would want to coach here would be great. We would not have to settle. I think the Miami game last week showed that Ohio State has become just as fast as any team in the nation - and that was the experts saying that. That was the big Buckeye weakness and it took a few years - but they are finally faster.

Cincy, ND, Alabama, Florida, Texas, Iowa, MSU, all the MAC schools and others all compete for the talent in Ohio. Sure Tressel loses out on a few big names like Hicks last year and DePriest this year - but he also lands a lot. This years class may be one of his best if not his best ever. I find it funny how Ohio State fans are viewed by Michigan fans - when Michigan and ND fans are some of the most hated in the nation. There is nothing wrong with being excited about your team and nobody travels to road games or bowls like Ohio State. Michigan is hated for its arrogance - even though you have nothing to be arrogant over anymore. You guys have been bottom feeders the last two years - yet you still assume your great and a wanted destination of top recruits. Even the kids that did commit are leaving in numbers greater then most schools. Why would a recruit want to come to Michigan - find out he does not like it and have to sit out a year to go somewhere else. If you think other recruits don't see and hear about that - your blind. You can bet your last dollar that the coaches competing with Michigan for players are going to use that against them as well. Look at this years class for instance. the Buckeyes are #4 and could be moving up with a few big signings yet thinking about OSU - Michigan was not in the top 20 yet.

Granted there are kids that have moved to Ohio and do not have the Ohio State bond that many do - but you fail to realize that Michigan is the enemy for the most part. Just because your a Michigan fan living in Ohio does not change that fact - your the vast minority. The Buckeye program has recovered from the Cooper years and those dark days are long behind us.

Toledo, for most of my life, has been pretty evenly split among UM/OSU fans.

[Blue In Ohio]

There is a pretty strong anti Michigan feeling thoughout Ohio high schools - just more so at Glenville. This topic has been talked about many times over. There is no doubt Ginn Sr and JT are very close - word is they speak often. Ginn Sr is not a great coach - but he is a great leader and teacher. If I'm not mistaken 3 or 4 of this years kids are on the OSU radar and the QB is being looked at by Iowa. He sends a ton of kids to college and is the only Father many of these kids ever had. Because of how well the Glenville players have been trated by Ohio State and Tressel - the whole community loves Ohio State. The list of players fron there is incredibly good. The Woods issue was a very large reason for the Michigan exclusion - and at the same time Tressel was taking over Ohio State. Tressel had two goals when he took the job at OSU - lock down the boarders (keep as many blue chip Ohio kids as possible) and beat Michigan - he has done both.

Im not saying Michigan can NEVER get a Glenville kid - but it will be few and far between. The school is like an Ohio State feeder program. Tressel was instumental in getting Nike to help them get uniforms and one of the cola companies donated a scoreboard. The Glenville comminity is very very tight and if one of their own was to be a Wolverine - they would still love them but it would not feel right. You can thank Tressel and the sucess he has had and the pride that he has restored at OSU as maybe the single biggest reason why you cannot get our bue chip kids. You can get our second and third tier kids - but normally any highly rated kid we lose ends up at Florida, Texas, Alabama, ND or a top flight school like that. That was a quick cliff notes version of why Ohio kids are no longer in AA.

You can say arrogant stuff like that now and for the moment that may be true. If this is a good season for Michigan with or without the added bonus of beating OSU I see our prospects down south opening up bigtime and with talent like that it really doesn't matter if we get a player playing for the scammer Gin. You can have them and Tressy can be the one making the promises of playing time and then if the kid arrives lazy he can deal with the wrath of Ginn. Michigan would be much better off passing on such a situation. Lloyd was right that Gin Sr. was nothing but a selfish nutball. All Michigan has to do is win and that will win some of the recruiting wars in Ohio just as it has in the past.

[Blue In Ohio]

That is pure speculation. Im sure that is your hope - but we don't see it. Ohio State football will NEVER be left in the hands of a coach who does not get it like Cooper did. It's not only Glenville but it's Ohio players as a whole. The truth is your school and team is not well liked in Ohio. Plus your competing with many big time schools to get our talent. In fact Dantonio and MSU is looked at in better reguards by many.

Maybe in our state because of the negative picture the local news media has painted. Had they made news out of what actually goes on up there at MSU it would be a different story. Nationally Sparty does not and will never have any clout in football. One or two local victories in recruiting over us at the moment does not hurt us especially when for two weeks now highlights of our offense our being played all over the nation. Denard is just the superstar we needed to show other superstars just what we can do with them. Should this season pan out for Michigan recruiting will finish very strong and the future will be looking bright.

[1OSUNUT]

DR is one player - where is the magic on the rest of them ? Why is he the only player that has emerged ? When will you show the nation what you can do with a defensive player ?

[tpilews]

DR is one player - where is the magic on the rest of them ? Why is he the only player that has emerged ? When will you show the nation what you can do with a defensive player ?

Why does UM have to? They are in an offensive system. UM can win championships with a good defense/great offense. Besides some bad angles/reads at the safety position, the defense has been pretty respectable.

[1OSUNUT]

Football is like Baseball in that good defense will beat good offense - just like good pitching will beat good hitting. Look at many of the past BCS champs - they all had great defenses.

[tpilews]

Football is like Baseball in that good defense will beat good offense - just like good pitching will beat good hitting. Look at many of the past BCS champs - they all had great defenses.

Not sure how you go back and call a defense great or not. Based on total defense, you can get a decent idea. You also have to take into account that a great offense will help the defenses rank. The more points you score, the longer you have possession of the football, etc... all will help a defense appear better than they are.

When Texas won in '05, they had the 10th ranked defense, but they also had the #3 offense.
Hell, when OSU won in '02, they had the 23rd ranked defense.
Florida St. in 1999 had the 19th ranked defense, 12th ranked offense.

[1OSUNUT]

Where is Michigans defense ranked ?

[amazinblue]

Nut,

I'm not sure where Michigan's D is ranked - but, I do know this. When a Michigan player is the talk of college football - and, that talk is all positive - it generates positive interest. And, the one thing that Michigan has begun to show on offense is its speed. We'll see more of the RB's - more of the slot receivers, more of the WR's.

The key to this is - Michigan's O is an exciting and explosive style of football - and THAT interests people. Folks will be watching to see what DR does every Saturdday. And, If it's DR, DG, or TF - you know what - the offensive scheme and style isn't going to change. And, if you're a talented high school player - I think you'd be jacked and jazzed with an opportunity to be a part of it.

Let's say Michigan goes 8-4 this season - which is very possible. When RR and GERG are recruiting - don't you think they'll mention something like the following - we're young in our secondary - and we are focusing on our D. If you think you've got what it takes to play immediately - and you're willing to prepare and work hard on both your athletics and academics - you could be on the two deep or start as a true freshman. Yes, we have released a few players - but, who of the players that requested their release have said anything negative about RR / Michigan? I haven't heard a bad word at all - have you? If so, please tell me what you've heard.

[AbRKnight]

DR is one player - where is the magic on the rest of them ? Why is he the only player that has emerged ? When will you show the nation what you can do with a defensive player ?

Are you kidding? Brandon Graham was drafted 13th overall this year.

The first tuos player drafted was a defensive player...Thaddeus Gibson was drafted 116th in the fourth round.

I think it's you guys who have something to prove, TP will be lucky to be drafted ahead of the fourth round if at all. How's that going to look to recruits?

[1OSUNUT]

That might sound very good to you - because your a Michigan fan. Just like if Ohio State sounds good to me. The truth is that if your that good - your going to have many options. Normally the top flight kids can go out West to USC, Oregon,etc - South to Alabama, LSU, Florida,Miami, FSU,etc - Southwest to Texas, Oklahoma,etc or Midwest Ohio State,ND,etc. - Michigan is just one of many choices. Now you throw in the dislike many are raised to have for Michigan - and you realize how hard it is to get top Ohio kids. When Cooper was here he pissed on the Ohio high schools because all he knew was the way he recruited at ASU. Sure he got some top kids nationally - but he lost a ton of talent from right under his nose. Woodson, Howard, Grbac - the list goes on forever and is in a lot of cases some of the best players ever to wear your uniform. Tressel has restored the pride and has kids wanting and dreaming of playing for the Buckeyes - not to mention when he puts the full court press on a kid and his parents, not many are better. He is the kind of coach I would love my son to play for.

Michigan has a long road to hoe to start pulling top kids from Ohio. Sure you will get the kids with MAC offers or smaller schools - but its going to be hard to out recruit ND, Iowa, Florida, Alabama, Texas, PSU and others for the scraps.

[tpilews]

Where is Michigans defense ranked ?

What does that have anything to do with our current discussion? You said "Football is like Baseball in that good defense will beat good offense". I showed you three examples from the last ten years of college football where good defenses were led to National Titles by great offenses.

As far as where UMs defense will rank this year, we'll have to wait til the season plays out to see just how good/bad they are. At this point, they aren't going to be ranked very well because the ND game. ND is going to put up a lot of yards against damn near everyone they play.

You've got 40 teams giving up less than 300 yds/game. In 2009, that number was 13, 2008 was 18. It's too damn early to be putting much stock in stats.

[Motown74]

It is very true, regardless of what Ginn Sr. might say. The reason that I have heard for the cold shoulder from Glenville is that when Lloyd Carr recruited Pierre Woods from Glenville he promised him all sorts of playing time and opportunities. Then Woods gets to Michigan and he felt that he wasnt utilized in the best way possible, that sentiment was shared with his former coaches at Glenville and Michigan has been shut out ever since.

I also think that Ginn Sr. is a buckeye fan that would prefer to see his kids play for Tressel, not that I think Ginn tells his guys not to go to Michigan straight up but I do believe there is an atmopshere at Glenville that is anti Michigan.

I don't think it has as much to do with Carr as you make it. Tressel came in and told the Ohio high school coaches that there is enough talent in-state for UOS to compete nationally. He was intent on keeping Ohio talent in Ohio. Cooper pissed a lot of Ohio coaches off because he rejected many of the schools and recruited more nationally.

Most high school coaches want to keep talent in-state through all levels of football. I played in Michigan and have tried to get kids to go back to my alma mater and have seen resistance from head coaches I have worked with because they want to keep kids in state.

I am impressed that Tressel has done what he has. Hats off to him. I just wouldn't blame Carr as much as I would give credit to JT.

[Motown74]

That might sound very good to you - because your a Michigan fan. Just like if Ohio State sounds good to me. The truth is that if your that good - your going to have many options. Normally the top flight kids can go out West to USC, Oregon,etc - South to Alabama, LSU, Florida,Miami, FSU,etc - Southwest to Texas, Oklahoma,etc or Midwest Ohio State,ND,etc. - Michigan is just one of many choices. Now you throw in the dislike many are raised to have for Michigan - and you realize how hard it is to get top Ohio kids. When Cooper was here he pissed on the Ohio high schools because all he knew was the way he recruited at ASU. Sure he got some top kids nationally - but he lost a ton of talent from right under his nose. Woodson, Howard, Grbac - the list goes on forever and is in a lot of cases some of the best players ever to wear your uniform. Tressel has restored the pride and has kids wanting and dreaming of playing for the Buckeyes - not to mention when he puts the full court press on a kid and his parents, not many are better. He is the kind of coach I would love my son to play for.

Michigan has a long road to hoe to start pulling top kids from Ohio. Sure you will get the kids with MAC offers or smaller schools - but its going to be hard to out recruit ND, Iowa, Florida, Alabama, Texas, PSU and others for the scraps.

Nut, I agree with you right up until you say it will be hard to outrecruit ND, Iowa, etc. Michigan will never have a problem recruiting nationally. With the largest alumni group in the world, the history, the helmets, the exposure, etc., that is not the problem. I do agree that Tressel has committed to keeping talent in state and that is commendable. Read my post above as well.

[amazinblue]

Is DR from Ohio? Hmmmm... maybe what we'll do is recruit 12 players like DR every year - I really don't care where they come from.

[1OSUNUT]

Nut, I agree with you right up until you say it will be hard to outrecruit ND, Iowa, etc. Michigan will never have a problem recruiting nationally. With the largest alumni group in the world, the history, the helmets, the exposure, etc., that is not the problem. I do agree that Tressel has committed to keeping talent in state and that is commendable. Read my post above as well.

I do not mean to indicate that Michigan is less superior then ND - let me explain. There are a lot of very good catholic high schools in Ohio - mainly in Cleveland and Cincy. These kids in most cases have gone to catholic grade school as well - so when ND comes calling its a very tempting offer. Now you put a sucessful Irishman at the helm and its even more attractive. None of my comments are ment to anger anybody - its just the way it is in much of Ohio. The reason why Iowa was listed is that they have been recruiting Northeast Ohio pretty hard (Stanzi is one pick up) and have offers out to many second tier players this year. I will agree Tressel has done a great job. He talks at coaches clinics and actually visits high school recruits at their school. That does not sound like much - but its HUGE. If Ohio State has intrest in you and they send a position coach or coordinator - thats OK but you question their desire to have you. But when Tressel shows up - its a big deal. The whole school gets excited. A few years ago PSU was recruiting a kid at Euclid High and Joe Pa came to see him. The buzz was incredible and they ended up landing the kid. I understand how Michigan is viewed nationally and they are a respected university - but that is not the case very much in Ohio. That is just a by product of the greatest rivalry in sports.

[bighousemike84]

What im wondering is, what will Ohio State do when the state dries up? It is no secret that a mass exodus of population out of the Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania region, has left those 3 states bereft of the talent pool that they once had. Now Michigan was never known as a powerhouse recruiting state but Ohio and Pennsylvania have traditionally been strong recruiting grounds. For the time being that sentiment is still true but the momnet has shifted to the south and states like Louisiana and Florida are quickly becoming the premiere recruiting grounds.

Dont misunderstand me here nut, I dont mean to say that UOS is incapable of recruting nationally, in fact I think Tressel does an admiral job of recruting other states. But Ohio State does rely heavily on in state talent and if the populaton shift continues at its current pace then the available talent pool will shrink with it. At what point does the trend get so alarming that Ohio State has to start going further out of state for talent? UM understands that dilemma and fortunately has a coaching staff well established in the current hotbed of Florida. And winning games, being the talk of the college football world, that kind of stuff gets those 5 stars attention.

Michigan does not have a very strong recruiting class at the moment but there are a host of top tier recruits that have expressed interest in Michigan but are in wait and see mode before they make any decision regarding Michigan. Now, 2 games into the season, Michigan is getting massive recognition giving those recruits a little to think about. Michigan is as powerful as Ohio State in the recruiting world simply because of the brand name. The play on the field is bound to effect the recruiting efforts but that is a ciclical thing. As we Michigan fans have learned all to well, success does not last forever and it is only the fool that does not prepare himself for that.

[bighousemike84]

I don't think it has as much to do with Carr as you make it. Tressel came in and told the Ohio high school coaches that there is enough talent in-state for UOS to compete nationally. He was intent on keeping Ohio talent in Ohio. Cooper pissed a lot of Ohio coaches off because he rejected many of the schools and recruited more nationally.

Most high school coaches want to keep talent in-state through all levels of football. I played in Michigan and have tried to get kids to go back to my alma mater and have seen resistance from head coaches I have worked with because they want to keep kids in state.

I am impressed that Tressel has done what he has. Hats off to him. I just wouldn't blame Carr as much as I would give credit to JT.

You might be right, I dont have any real evidence to support my story but it is a story that I have heard numerous times from much more credible sources then myself. As I have heard, Carr was perceived to have misused Pierre Woods during his time at Michigan. Apparently the Glenville coaches attempted to convince Carr to play Woods more than he did but Carr was never available to the coaches and he was reportedly not very helpful to Woods at all. All this lead to the Glenville coaches and administrators turning a cold shoulder to Michigan.

I dont know how true that if it is true, to what extent. All I know is that something happened to upset Glenville and it was a time when Carr was halfway out the door and Tressel was rolling through the competition.

Considering the last decade of college football, it is no surprise to me that Ohio State would be out recruiting Michigan in the state and in general. Michigan is still a powerful brand name that is instantly recognized by recruits across the country, but, 10 years of middling play and 3 years of horror have left Michigan behind. But why should I be shocked at that? 10 years ago the kids that are Freshman and Sophomores in college and the kids that are upper class man in high school, they got to witness a buckeye National championship and 2 runner ups. They got to see Tressel and Ohio State power through the B10 and these 7, 8, and 9 year old kids got to dream of winning that NC and playing in that big game. The same used to be said for Michigan, Woodson and Howard, 2 of Michigans greatest from the buckeye state. 2 kids that grew up watching Bo and Michigan just roll over the competition. They got to see the countless Rose Bowls Michigan played in and they got to dream of the day that they would play in a Rose Bowl.

That is college football and that is the young life of a star athlete. The best want to go to the biggest spotlight and it doesnt necessarily matter what team it is, its just whatever is the flavor of the week. Ohio State had it, so did USC. Now Florida and Texas are the two biggest recruiters and its only a matter of time before they get supplanted.

[Wolvrin704]

Cincy has a D1 school so of course they will have fans that like the Bearcats more then they like Ohio State - but I'm willing to bet there is a pretty good amount of Buckeye fans there as well. I like the way you guys assume because the wheels fell off Michigan that it will happen to Ohio State - almost comical. I'm sure Ohio State will have a down year down the line - but I don't see us having a season like you guys have had the last two years. They just get to good of a player for that to happen. We are not worried about Tressel leaving. First off he is signed for many more years and the list of coaches that would want to coach here would be great. We would not have to settle. I think the Miami game last week showed that Ohio State has become just as fast as any team in the nation - and that was the experts saying that. That was the big Buckeye weakness and it took a few years - but they are finally faster.

Cincy, ND, Alabama, Florida, Texas, Iowa, MSU, all the MAC schools and others all compete for the talent in Ohio. Sure Tressel loses out on a few big names like Hicks last year and DePriest this year - but he also lands a lot. This years class may be one of his best if not his best ever. I find it funny how Ohio State fans are viewed by Michigan fans - when Michigan and ND fans are some of the most hated in the nation. There is nothing wrong with being excited about your team and nobody travels to road games or bowls like Ohio State. Michigan is hated for its arrogance - even though you have nothing to be arrogant over anymore. You guys have been bottom feeders the last two years - yet you still assume your great and a wanted destination of top recruits. Even the kids that did commit are leaving in numbers greater then most schools. Why would a recruit want to come to Michigan - find out he does not like it and have to sit out a year to go somewhere else. If you think other recruits don't see and hear about that - your blind. You can bet your last dollar that the coaches competing with Michigan for players are going to use that against them as well. Look at this years class for instance. the Buckeyes are #4 and could be moving up with a few big signings yet thinking about OSU - Michigan was not in the top 20 yet.

Granted there are kids that have moved to Ohio and do not have the Ohio State bond that many do - but you fail to realize that Michigan is the enemy for the most part. Just because your a Michigan fan living in Ohio does not change that fact - your the vast minority. The Buckeye program has recovered from the Cooper years and those dark days are long behind us.

Dude, every time you write a post like this I think you are part of the PR dept for the OSU athletic dept. Seriously, it sounds like you're reading out of a PR brochure for recruits.


As for Ginn, I found this little gem.....

"Our relationship with Michigan is dead, but [Michigan Coach] Lloyd Carr is the one who has killed it," Ginn Sr. told the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "It's disgraceful."