Sad But True...

[Sten Carlson]

Here is the sad truth of the matter that the Anti-RR faction cannot seem to grasp.

MICHIGAN IS NOT THE MICHIGAN YOU THINK IT IS, AND IS HASN'T BEEN FOR OVER 20 YEARS!

You guys go on and on about how RR is fucking everything up, and that this new guy is going to come in and win, and he's going to make everything better. But, the sad truth of the matter is that y'all are living in the past, you're living in a fantasy world that existed BEFORE scholarship limits when Bo was still the coach and Michigan wore MAIZE and not bright yellow.

Never in my life have I seen a fanbase whose reverence for the glory days of the past has blinded them to the present state of the program. Many Michigan fans are like Lola from the song "Copacabana" -- donning her feather boa and sitting at the bar drinking herself blind waiting for her long lost Tony that died decades before. Maybe the ND fanbase is close...

THAT TIME IS OVER!

Since 2000 Michigan has had one season with a final record that is better than the 2010 team is still capable of recording. I don't want to hear your predictions, I want you to look at facts. The ONLY year in the past 10 in which Michigan has had better than 3 losses is 2006 (in which they got beat by OSU again, and got out played and out coached vs. USC again).

What I am trying to say is that this MYTH of Michigan dominance is just that, a MYTH -- it's not real, and it hasn't been for quite some time. Let's go even farther back in history. In the decade previous to the aforementioned one Michigan had 3 seasons with less than 3 losses: '99, '97, and '91. So in 19 seasons there have only been 4 Michigan teams that have recorded records better than the 2010 is STILL CAPABLE OF RECORDING! Yes, winning out seems like a long shot, but I think that people need to put things in historical perspective.

I know you guys are calling me out by name, and making fun of my stance on the issue of RR's tenure and fit at Michigan. But, I really implore you guys to try to have some perspective on what you're talking about. Yes, the defense sucks, but the defense doesn't suck because RR sucks, or even because GRob sucks. The defense sucks because they're young in many places, and just flat out not that talented in most others. How is a coach supposed to MAKE poor players play well? Please, someone tell me how.

You guys are all over this guy for trying his best to put a team of players that are either too young or lack the talent to EVER play (let alone start) on the historic Michigan defenses that you seem so keen upon using as bench mark. I am not averse to holding the program to a high standard, but at some point you guys need to look at the situation through a lens of reality and not emotional longing for the glory days of yore.

As I said in the opening statement, those years are LONG GONE, and but for a few exceptions in the last 20 years, they've not been here since Bo passed the torch.

Another factor that I don't think you guys are adding on the equation is how the level of competition has changed, especially in the Big 10. LONG GONE are the days when Minn. (ok they still suck), Purdue, Indiana, and even Wisconsin were SURE WINS. With the advent of scholarship limits, these teams are MUCH better teams than they were back when Bo was racking up his amazing record in the Big 10.

I just want everyone to relax and realize that if Michigan is playing this poorly on defense that there MUST be something wrong with the players that are on the squad. If the team was loaded with NFL ready upperclassmen and they still were sucking I'd be right there with y'all beating the drums -- like I was for many years concerning Carr. I think it's ironic that people look back on Carr's tenure with such fondness and they tend to forget the fact that we were, at the time, all pulling our hair out wondering HOW IN THE WORLD WE COULD CONSISTENTLY LOSE 4 GAMES AND PLAY SUCH BAD DEFENSE WITH SUCH GREAT TALENT! Now, you guys are asking the same question about losing, but you're glossing over the fact that RR has 1/3 the talent (maybe less) than Carr had, and y'all are holding him to the same standard. I just don't understand.

I hate losing, don't get me wrong....and I was screaming at the TV and throwing my hat, swearing, and getting irate at the complete lack of defense. WITH EVEN A BIG 10 AVERAGE DEFENSE MICHIGAN IS UNDEFEATED AND PERHAPS IN THE TOP 10. But guys, what pains me even more is the division amongst us Michigan Men.

I hate the fact that we're in here bickering, and making lists, and demeaning each other for our views (and I am guilty of it as well). When I was calling people that don't support RR cowards what I was trying to say is that I think we have to see this through, that Michigan was so far down (even farther than most people can possibly imagine) that it's going to take some time to come back up and if you cannot (or will not) accept the reality of that fact then you hiding from the truth, i.e., being a coward. It takes a lot of strength to face uncomfortable facts about something or someone that you love. Michigan is down, and it was down, and it was down when RR arrived...yes, it seems to have slipped a bit further down on defense, but many times things get a bit worse BEFORE they get better. That is when bravery is needed -- when the path isn't clear and things seem to be getting worse. This is no time to scrap the whole thing and start over -- not time to go back the way we came. WE HAVE TO KEEP GOING FORWARD even if at times (like now with the defense) it doesn't seem like progress is being made. I am confident that AD Brandon sees things this way, and that he'll make the right decision for the long term success of Michigan, not the short term immediate gratification of the fans. People say, "2 and a half years is enough..." Well, obviously it's not...Things were worse than you thought when you put that time limit in your mind.

I know you guys don't want to wait, I know that you guys are POSITIVE that firing RR now is the way to go, and that the NEXT guy is going to be the savior of the program and restore the glory...but I hate to say that I think that is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Michigan is not what you think it is, it's not this MUST HAVE job anymore than coaches from all over the nation are going to be fighting to get...it wasn't in 2008 and it CERTAINLY isn't now after all the losing, infighting, division, and anger. Who in their right mind is going to want to leave their successful job wherever they are to come into this clusterfuck and have an entire fanbase expecting them to be the Messiah...not with the roster he'd inherit (esp. on defense).

Right now RR is here, and he's doing all he can to try to win and recruit. But, as y'all should be well aware, CFB moves slowly. You cannot make mid-season trades, and you cannot make a sophomore a senior in one season.

Please guys, please please please try to see things with perspective and not with emotion. It's all right there in front of us. If I had one wish for RR it would be that he come out and air all the program's dirty laundry -- tell the story to the fans about what and who he had to work with when he came here. I know he won't, and I know that that would make many of you even more pissed at him. But for the life of me, I think that doing something like that would be the ONLY way that he could get people to see the reality and not the MYTH.

Hang tight my Michigan Brothers and Sisters....we need each other now more than ever! I know y'all are hurting and embarrassed, but we can get through it...we just need to maintain a stiff upper lip as they say, and don't let the outside world see any weakness in us. Maintain continuity and rebuild the depth chart to where it used to be.

Go Blue!

[Mike Furley]

....and 10% unemployment is "the new normal".

What has made this country (and other entities such as Michigan football) great is that people won't put up with this sh!t for too long if they believe in exceptionalism - they just need someone at the helm who believes in it too.

God love ya Sten, but your words are falling on more deaf ears with each passing week (and season). Later today a bunch of people are going to be saying "Enough!" at the polls and I suspect a good number of Michigan fans were shouting that same word at their television set on Saturday night.

It's not that we're not capable of comprehending what you are saying, it's that we just don't believe you. Michigan football has been great for over a hundred years and it is still great today - it's just that Rich Rodriguez isn't interested in putting Michigan football out on the field. He thought he could just put his fancy, new age, Big East offense out on the field and run through the Big Ten.

Michigan football and Michigan fans don't need to exercise more patience with this horsesh!t, they just need someone at the helm who bleeds Michigan football...because Michigan football is great.

[tapeloop]

Wow. Such passion. Look, we're not talking national championship. We're talking the ability to have a winning record. I'm not sure we'll win another game. This isn't a 3-loss season; this is at least a 6-loss season. That's bad. And it's his 3rd year. That's really bad.

I don't know why you're lobbying so hard. None of us are making this decision.

Now take a deep breath and relax. Rich Rod is going to be fired.

[Sten Carlson]

It's not that we're not capable of comprehending what you are saying, it's that we just don't believe you.

If you don't believe me, its because you're being wilfully ignorant of the FACTS of the situation. I don't want to get into politics in here, but let me just say that the analogy that you're using is apt -- the American voter doesn't have the slightest clue about WHY things are going asunder in their nation, and they're deluded into thinking that the NEXT guy they elect is going to right the wrong. In both instances (the US and Michigan football) the problem is the entity itself NOT the leader. The United States is being gutted by a ruthless cadre of bankers that set up a debt slavery system in 1913 (a system whose ancestor was the REAL cause of the American Revolution) and the Democrat are just as culpable as the Republicans. So the voters are going to say ENOUGH! So what...that is not the issue. The issue is who among them have the knowledge and the understanding to actually SOLVE the problem. My guess is that we're going to get a lot of big talk, and very little action as the money and favors start to flow.

The Michigan fan base is EXACTLY the same -- they don't know what the real causes of the problems are, they just know that they have a target for their disappointment and if they get rid of him, they'll feel better for a few seasons -- just like in politics. But, as in the case of the US, the problem is NOT RR...the problem is Michigan.


Michigan football has been great for over a hundred years...

Actually, that is not true. Michigan was great, as Nut is fond of telling us, in the leather helmet days -- the 20's, the 40's, the 70, and from time to time in the 90's. Yes we have a great tradition, but Michigan has not be the dominant juggernaut that people think for a long time.


... it's just that Rich Rodriguez isn't interested in putting Michigan football out on the field.

If you really believe that reason that RR isn't winning is because of his style of play you know even less than I thought about college football. RR isn't winning because Michigan is playing with depth chart that is more like that of a WEAK MAC team than an elite program's. We're seeing a turn around on the offense, but the defense has less talent than almost any other team in the nation, and in 2 seasons Michigan has had maybe 4 players that would play on a "traditional" Michigan defensive roster. If you think that is on RR, and is indicative of his desire of will, or him not wanting to bring Michigan football to the field then there is nothing to say...you're lost.


Michigan football and Michigan fans don't need to exercise more patience with this horsesh!t, they just need someone at the helm who bleeds Michigan football...because Michigan football is great.

Even though you're a Buckeye, you too are suffering from the Michigan Myth. I agree that Mcihigan football is great, but the fact of the matter is that it is football, and that it is no different than any other football program at it's core. The name on the helmet doesn't change the fact that without talent you're going to lose more often than you win. You can dance around the issue and offer up hyperbole all you want Mike, but you're not fooling me. RR is a very capable coach who has coached and won at many places...just because Michigan is an old famous program doesn't mean the formula is any dfferent than it is anywheree else. To espouse such is asinine. So by your criteria ANYONE than bleeds Michigan football is going to win more than RR? How come Carr lost to OSU and App. St.? Didn't he "bleed Michigan football". This is the Michigan Myth in full effect and it's laughable.

I bleed Michigan football as much as anyone, but I am aware that Michigan ain't all that! It is no different, no better than anywhere else in the nation, and to say otherwise evidences that your conclusions of the situation are based purely on EMOTION and not RATIONALITY!

[Sten Carlson]

None of us are making this decision...Rich Rod is going to be fired.

You said it, PASSION. I love Michigan football, always have, always will. The reason that I am "lobbying so hard" is because I feel like the fan base is doing the wrong thing, they're doing a very UN-MICHIGAN MAN like thing...and that is making irrational decisions based on emotion and not reality.

I get fired up when I read comments like the one you posted above. These matter of fact conclusory statements and the glee that you guys take in saying them. I see the hand writing on the walls, but I also see the HUGE liabilities that RR might be handing over to the next coach -- liabilities that he did not create, yet he's being held responsible for. I think that it is a very sad state of affairs when an allegedly educated, worldly, and sophisticated fan base like that at Michigan is having such a hard time dealing with the reality of the situation -- MICHIGAN TANKED over the past decade and RR was brought in to clean it up! You guy make your pathetic fantasy lists as if ANY of the coaches that you name are going to want to even TOUCH this job after they witness how RR was treated and what he had to work with. They know what the truth is, and they're not suffering from the Michigan Myth like y'all are. "FUCK THAT!"... they're going to say..."I have a great job right where I am where people love me, and I'd sooner retire than walk into that clusterfuck!" And all you kids are going to be left waiting with your cookies and milk down by the chimney for Santa to show up and save the day...but he ain't comin' cuz Michigan ain't been nice...they've been wilfully ignorance and NAUGHTY in the way they've treated RR. So it'll be a lump of fucking coal in y'all's stockings...then you're going to come in here and bitch about that guy, and call for HIM to be fired...WE'RE MICHIGAN DAMN IT! But we won't be anymore...we'll be NOTRE FUCKING DAME -- an old irrelevant HAS BEEN! But, if we keep RR and rebuild BEFORE we decide if we need someone new...well then we have a chance. We're on the brink right now, and all you idiots are running to back of the bus get a view of the bottom of the canyon!

Further, I get frustrated by supposed "fans" that make comments like, "This isn't a 3-loss season; this is at least a 6-loss season..." when four games have yet to be played. I don' t know how you can just write off the team the way that you do, and I think you should be ashamed of yourself. Frankly, when I was in school (which I don't think you're too many years out or maybe still in) you'd have gotten you fuckin' head beat in if I ever heard you say that in my presence -- Michigan Man or not (there wasn't internet back then when I was in school). You're pathetic, and you really don't deserve to call yourself a Michigan fan IMO.

I am very relaxed, and very calm...mostly because I KNOW that DB is going to the right thing and keep RR to maintain continuity. He's a smart man, unlike people who see very little and want to use that little info to make big important decisions.

[tapeloop]

You said it, PASSION. I love Michigan football, always have, always will. The reason that I am "lobbying so hard" is because I feel like the fan base is doing the wrong thing, they're doing a very UN-MICHIGAN MAN like thing...and that is making irrational decisions based on emotion and not reality.

I get fired up when I read comments like the one you posted above. These matter of fact conclusory statements and the glee that you guys take in saying them. I see the hand writing on the walls, but I also see the HUGE liabilities that RR might be handing over to the next coach -- liabilities that he did not create, yet he's being held responsible for. I think that it is a very sad state of affairs when an allegedly educated, worldly, and sophisticated fan base like that at Michigan is having such a hard time dealing with the reality of the situation -- MICHIGAN TANKED over the past decade and RR was brought in to clean it up! You guy make your pathetic fantasy lists as if ANY of the coaches that you name are going to want to even TOUCH this job after they witness how RR was treated and what he had to work with. They know what the truth is, and they're not suffering from the Michigan Myth like y'all are. FUCK THAT, they're going to say...I have a great job right where I am where people love me, and I'd sooner retire than walk into that clusterfuck!

Further, I get frustrated by supposed "fans" that make comments like, "This isn't a 3-loss season; this is at least a 6-loss season..." when four games have yet to be played. I don' t know how you can just write off the team the way that you do, and I think you should be ashamed of yourself. Frankly, when I was in school (which I don't think you're too many years out or maybe still in) you'd have gotten you fuckin' head beat in if I ever heard you say that in my presence -- Michigan Man or not (there wasn't internet back then when I was in school). You're pathetic, and you really don't deserve to call yourself a Michigan fan IMO.

I am very relaxed, and very calm...mostly because I KNOW that DB is going to the right thing and keep RR to maintain continuity. He's a smart man, unlike people who see very little and want to use that little info to make big important decisions.

I think you should be very careful what you say to people. You have no idea what some people know or what they don't. What their age is, when they graduated, etc.

I think someone who is proud of themselves for stating that they would've tried to beat me up in college (and I don't know that you could've taken me) is the one who should be ashamed of themselves. And also, after defending myself, I would've had you arrested. Not smart.

[Sten Carlson]

I think you should be very careful what you say to people. You have no idea what some people know or what they don't. What their age is, when they graduated, etc.

I think someone who is proud of themselves for stating that they would've tried to beat me up in college (and I don't know that you could've taken me) is the one who should be ashamed of themselves. And also, after defending myself, I would've had you arrested. Not smart.

What do you know? I don't give a fuck what you know Tapeloop...Am I proud of what I would have done back then, not really, but it is a fact. Could I have taken you? I don't know, you sound like a pussy so probably and I was pretty tough back then...but that's not the point. The point is that you're a fucking moron who calls himself a Michigan fan yet you're going to sit there and say that Michigan has already lost 6 games BEFORE the games are played. For that you should be ashamed. When did you graduate...again, the comments that you make lead me to believe that you're in your mid 20's.

I love the I'd have you arrested too...tough, real tough!

[ronleflore]

Yes, the defense sucks, but the defense doesn't suck because RR sucks, or even because GRob sucks

Not true. RR hired the D-coordinator, and recruited three classes.

Dantonio took a 4-8 John L Smith spread- offence, turned it to pro- style offence and defense, and is set for his fourth straight bowl.
Nick Saban won a NT in his third year largely due to Heisman a trophy winner recruited by Saban, and installing Saban’s DEFENSE . Good coaches can win early. Urban Meyer did it at Utah and with the Gators. Two NT's.
Young players!!!! RR is responsible for his slow recruits and a lousy D- coordinator he hand- picked! RR says he is very involved in the Offense and Special-Teams.
Special teams suck too!


we just need to maintain a stiff upper lip as they say, and don't let the outside world see any weakness in us

The weakness is plain to see. 4-16 vs the B10. That’s MILLENESQUE

Stiff upper lip or no, we aren't going to hide an elephant under a cushion! Where in your data is there a Michigan football coach who over a similar time period had a worse Big 10 record? Good coaches win in any era. Look at Joe Pa!

You talk of division amongst Michigan men.

There is none. There is disagreement over the 4-16 experiment .
Never confuse open-minded differing opinions as division. You refer to those who disagree with you regarding RR's worth, as the " the Anti-RR
faction". Yopu are ctreating factions or divisions because someone disagrees with your position. . I have read a lot of your name calling responses to good Michigan fans, because they may nor support RR as you do. Dont forget, they always support Michigan which existed long before RR was born, and long after all of uswill have passed. Calling one who disagrees with you a pussy or douche bag does little for your argument, rather it exposes it for what it is. Weak at best.
Michigan fans support and love Michigan, with or without RR. There is no division. Trust me; I am positive Michigan will get back to our old “on- the- field” dominance, by picking the proper coaches and recruiting the proper talent.

I have not responded to any posts this year so far but have viewed from a distance. Let me make one thing crystal clear . I graduated from Michigan, I am paying tuition currently for my daughter at Michigan, and I am fully behind Michigan and what is best for Michigan. Michigan has an important tradition, namely WINNING.
As one true Michigan- man, living in Michigan year- round, your arguments no matter how voluminous simply don't resonate with me.
I believe Michigan can do better than RR.




Best wishes always, and please have perspective when reading this also.

[tapeloop]

What do you know? I don't give a fuck what you know Tapeloop...Am I proud of what I would have done back then, not really, but it is a fact. Could I have taken you? I don't know, you sound like a pussy so probably and I was pretty tough back then...but that's not the point. The point is that you're a fucking moron who calls himself a Michigan fan yet you're going to sit there and say that Michigan has already lost 6 games BEFORE the games are played. For that you should be ashamed. When did you graduate...again, the comments that you make lead me to believe that you're in your mid 20's.

I love the I'd have you arrested too...tough, real tough!

The general consensus has them losing these games. You are the outlying viewpoint on that one.

Not that it is any of your business, but late 30s.

And I'm sure you'd love to have me arrested, but I haven't done anything illegal. I don't go around attacking people.

[Sten Carlson]

your arguments no matter how voluminous simply don't resonate with me.

I don't care!

[Sten Carlson]

The general consensus has them losing these games. You are the outlying viewpoint on that one.

Not that it is any of your business, but late 30s.

And I'm sure you'd love to have me arrested, but I haven't done anything illegal. I don't go around attacking people.

well you don't come off as someone in their late 30's...you come off as someone in their mid-20's. I don't go around attacking people either...I was just making a point that your attitude and your writing off of the team wouldn't have gone over very well with me back then. I probably would have just talked shit to you anyway...I was using a bit of artisitc license for effect.

I wouldn't have you arrested...a fist fight is a fist fight...no need to get the cop involved.

That is the general concensus huh? Oh well, sorry...I suppose then the team should just quit, and not even bother to show the fuck up for the game as even those that allegedly bleed Maize and Blue have already concluded that they are going to lose!

p.s. -- why do I need to be so careful? Are you threatening me?

[ronleflore]

Michigan football and Michigan fans don't need to exercise more patience with this horsesh!t, they just need someone at the helm who bleeds Michigan football...because Michigan football is great.



AMEM brother.

[ronleflore]

Wow. Such passion. Look, we're not talking national championship. We're talking the ability to have a winning record. I'm not sure we'll win another game. This isn't a 3-loss season; this is at least a 6-loss season. That's bad. And it's his 3rd year. That's really bad.


I don't know why you're lobbying so hard. None of us are making this decision.Now take a deep breath and relax. Rich Rod is going to be fired.

The Alumni(Whales) will respond. Money talks and RR walks!

[Sten Carlson]

Michigan football and Michigan fans don't need to exercise more patience with this horsesh!t, they just need someone at the helm who bleeds Michigan football...because Michigan football is great.


AMEM brother.

Then I'll ask you the same question I asked Mike...How come Carr couldn't get it done? Didn't he Bleed Michigan football?

[Columbusisawhore]

You guy make your pathetic fantasy lists as if ANY of the coaches that you name are going to want to even TOUCH this job after they witness how RR was treated and what he had to work with. They know what the truth is, and they're not suffering from the Michigan Myth like y'all are. "FUCK THAT!"... they're going to say..."I have a great job right where I am where people love me, and I'd sooner retire than walk into that clusterfuck!"

How have they treated him poorly here? By providing state of the art facilities?, By subsidizing his buyout from WVU? By paying him MILLIONS to lose each year? By NOT FIRING HIM AFTER TWO LOSING SEASONS? Tell me... I want to know your opinion.

Again... it points to a lack of accountability. There have been plenty of coaches in NCAAF who have come into programs brand new and had winning seasons RIGHT AWAY. Just take a look at O$U... I bet they were saying the same thing we're saying now about the program being screwed and nobody wanting to come in and coach there after being OWNED by Michigan for years and after the South Carolina loss in a crappy bowl... then they get the guy who has been a thorn in Michigan's side for 10 years... AND HE DID IT RIGHT AWAY (Went 7-5 in his first year, won a NATIONAL TITLE his second year. and has been in BCS bowls in all but two years).

The depth problem is just as much Coach Rodriguez's fault as it is the old regime. He's been running recruits off left and right... lets be honest here. I get what you're saying, but it all sounds like nothing but excuse after excuse. MICHIGAN is not a myth... COACH RODRIGUEZ'S COMPETENCE IS A MYTH.

I'm curious Sten (and I don't mean any disrespect by this) are you a lawyer or politician? If not, you should think of a career change.

[Motown74]

Sten,

We have had our discussions over the past year or so but I am shocked that you are missing the point that so many people are making, and that is RROD is not GOOD ENOUGH for Michigan. Bottom line this experiment has been a disaster. I have said in other posts that RROD will NOT be fired until AFTER he fills the coffers. At that time a Michigan Man, who is GOOD ENOUGH for Michigan will be the next head coach.

I have access to tickets at Purdue and the Wisconsin game and I don't want to go. My father had season tickets for over thirty years and he didn't even want to go with me. I ended up giving them away. How sad is that? My father is the epitome of a Michigan Man and he doesn't even want to go to a game because he is sick of what he sees on the field. He has been following Michigan since the 40s, had a brother who played basketball there, and had season tickets for over 30 years, AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO GO TO A GAME!?!?!? The experiment didn't work. End of story.

[Shauneyboy68]

Cbus is a whore... you should be scared of offending Sten. His father was a professor at Michigan, a professor of kicking ass! And Sten's no slouch himself. He has a PhD in Pugilism from the Ivy League of the West.

Tapeloop, if you and Sten would've tusseled in college, Sten would've gotten the better of you. Those lacrosse players, when they're not baking themselves out of their minds, are tough guys.

/sarcasm. I think poor Sten's finally lost his mind. Sten, relax. Take a deep breath. There you go. Now, suck down some zoloft and go get yourself a manicure/pedicure. Ahhh... There now, isn't that better?

On my way into the office this morning, I was listening to the local sports radio personalities discuss Rich Rod and the UM program. Now, I live a long way from Ann Arbor, and this was on local sports talk. One of the guys on the show is a future first ballot hall of fame offensive lineman. He stated, and I have to paraphrase here, that if you, as a Michigan fan, aren't calling for Rich Rod's head, then you are not a real Michigan fan. He said that you're more loyal to RR than you are to the program. His argument? 4 Big Ten wins in 3 seasons.

Tough stuff to hear, considering this is a local show, and the locality is over 1,000 miles away from Michigan.

I'm still not convinced RR should be fired, not after 3 losses. But we better see some big improvement, on both sides of the ball, over the next 4 weeks. The defense better tighten up. The offense better produce IN THE FIRST HALF, BEFORE the other team jumps out to a huge lead.

[Blue In Ohio]

Sten I hope you are right but the fact are we couldn't beat the worst offense in the big ten starting a walk on qb. Right now the 7-5 season Carr had that led to everybody thinking he should be fired is looking pretty good right now. The major problem I have with Rich Rod right now is that he is the one who chose the 3-3-5 defense which is a major reason for the demise. It was as obvious to every football fan that the 3-3-5 was a major mistake last spring yet we stayed the course. I could see doing what we did offensively in 2008 but I am not sure even with speed and talent the 3-3-5 stops most power big ten teams. Pretty much all we do is add 5 small slow guys to our defense and stop nothing instead of one or the other. This is my issue. I hope things get turned around and we can win a few more and salvage things. Right now things aren't looking good because that was one game that I thought we should win for sure. Last year we lost those games too and ran out of opportunities. I can only wait for the great pumpkin so long.

[Swoosh]

What defensive scheme would you run with MI's talent?

[1OSUNUT]

Sten -

I think your fighting a battle that you cannot win anymore - against a opponent with an army that is getting bigger by the minute. Everybody knows about your depleted roster theroy - but its so much bigger then that. Penn State has a young team - and so do many other programs in college football. Michigan does not have a sranglehold on playing young players. Nobody has yet to comment on why Syracuse (with a first year QB) is sitting at 6-2 only two years after GR ran the program into the ground. Where is the improvement at Michigan ? This team is getting worse - not better. That is something that DB has to look at when you evaluate the perormance of RR and the program. Losing games is one thing - but the way you lose them is something else. Look at his overall record in the Big Ten over 3 years - 4 conference wins !!!That would get a coach at Minnesota fired - Im sorry it already did. Are you telling me the expectations at Minnesota are higher then that of the mighty Wolverines ? I highly doubt it.

I don't know where this change in culture came from that has allowed mediocre play and losing to be accepted at Michigan - but it pathetic. I see teams all over the country get better on a weekly basis - yet Michigan keeps getting worse ? Where is this Barwis power and speed we heard all about ? I see other teams with players that look stronger and faster allover the field. I think you guys were sold a damaged bill of goods. RR is supposed to be a elite coach - and I argue that to the end that he is not. He is an elite OC - not a head coach. If he would of went to Alabama and pulled this crap - 2 years and he is gone. I don't care if you have a team that is starting 22 freshman - you should win more then 4 Big Ten games in 2+ years. RR is not good enough for Michigan. Here is a question. Do you think Saban, Tressel, Stoops, Peterson, Harbaugh, Meyer, (or any other elite coach) has the same record as RR over a 2+ year period ? I say no way in hell. This team lacks basic football on field knowledge, direction and passion. In many ways the defense looks like it has quit on GR and RR. Look at the body language - it speaks volumes. You guys should thank your lucky stars (so should RR) for DR. His outstanding early season play is the only reason why your not talking about a 2 win team. Is beating Purdue really enough to save a head coach at Michigan ? Is that what it has come to. Since when is admitting Illinois is better then you and Purdue is a challege acceptable. These are teams you should be kicking a mud hole in. As Buckeye fans we EXPECT to win all the games against the lower tier teams - in a compforyable fashion. Sure you have the bad game that creeps up or the upset (Purdue & Illinois) - but then the following year you put them back in their place.

Michigan needs to go out and make a big splash and grab the guy THEY want - not settle for a coach who was looking for a big payday because all his talent finally graduated. Michigan was between a rock and a hard place and felt pressured to hire a coach - it has been a mistake. Cut your ties and throw the kitchen sink at Harbaugh or somebody who bleeds your school colors. RR is no more a Michigan Man then Cooper was a Buckeye. They don't understand and never will. As a Buckeye fan I hope RR manages to save his job - that should tell you all you need to hear right there. He will never win a championship at Michigan and all that offensive talent will be wasted inthe next few years - that is a shame. Don't let an outsider lower your standards - take you team back !!!!!!Great programs carry themself in a confident manner where they expect to win - they have a swagger about them. Michigan used to have that confidence. Untill Michigan returns to its roots, which is tough hard nosed - no gimmick football. They will never win a God damn thing in the conference - let alone nationally.

[Shauneyboy68]

What defensive scheme would you run with MI's talent?

4-3. Best player on the squad is #68. I'd shift him down into a gap and put another body at the line of scrimmage. It would put more pressure on the offensive line and allow Martin to get more done.

It would also have the effect of taking one of those DB's, who are having no impact anyway, off the field.

Further, you'd be shifting from a 3 safety to a 2 safety look. I think part of the problem is that DB's are getting assignments confused out there. Move to a simpler look and you'd alieviate some of that confusion.

Also, I'd make Ezeh the weak side OLB instead of the Mike backer.

[Motown74]

What defensive scheme would you run with MI's talent?

I can't remember the exact year but ND was picked to not do much, maybe even unranked. They ended up winning a NC and years later in a book they asked Lou what he did. He said it is simple: I took my slowest DL and made them OL. I took my slowest LBS and made them DL. I took my slowest DBs and made them LBs. I took my WRs who couldn't catch and made them DBs. That is how we won a NC.

I am not a big scheme guy. Some schemes are designed to protect your weakest defensive or offensive positions. I don't think the 3-3-5 is bad. I am more of a 3-5-3 guy because of the hundreds of blitz packages you can incorporate. But we don't have any team speed and that prevents us from playing this type of scheme. I think the 3-3-5 is a great defense but not a great BASE defense. I would run it against the Illinois, Purdue's, Northwestern's, Minnesota's, and IU's but would run a different base defense against the PSU, Wisky's, Iowa's, MSU, OSU, Nebraska's.

Again, if these kids are not smart enough to pick up the complex defense's then why are they at Michigan? Maybe there is more to Harbaugh's comments a few years ago.....?

[Motown74]

4-3. Best player on the squad is #68. I'd shift him down into a gap and put another body at the line of scrimmage. It would put more pressure on the offensive line and allow Martin to get more done.

It would also have the effect of taking one of those DB's, who are having no impact anyway, off the field.

Further, you'd be shifting from a 3 safety to a 2 safety look. I think part of the problem is that DB's are getting assignments confused out there. Move to a simpler look and you'd alieviate some of that confusion.

Also, I'd make Ezeh the weak side OLB instead of the Mike backer.

I disagree because our LBs are too slow to cover the slot. A hybrid 3-4 with a Stud Linebacker in a standup position on the line. In the defense you suggest Ezeh should be the Mike because he is slow and has no lateral coverage ability. I suggest going to a 3-4 and put Roh at the Stud position with Martin at Nose but in a shade/shadow and Saggesse at the other DT or DE position.

[NCBLUE]

I agree with some of what Sten originally posted. CFB has changed, the 85 scholarship limit has limited the top programs from stockpiling talent and created more parity than ever before. The Big Ten is no longer the Big Two. RR did not inherit a program that was at it's top. College football fans are noterious for elevating their favorte team and having unrealistic expectations.

Unfortunatley other things have changed as well. The 6 or 7 year cycle, that Sten has mentioned does not exist at most programs. Coaches are seldom given that long to get their program in place. Most coaches are given 3-4 years and on a rare case they are given 5. Too much pressure and money involved.

The amount of change that has taken place at Michigan since RR arrived is monumental. I still do not think anyone expected Michigan to win the Big Ten or compete for a BCS birth just yet. However three years in and the majority of the fan base and alumni overwhelmining think he has underachieved. In the end coaches are mainly evaluated on wins/loses, running a clean program, representing the university and graduating players. Unfortunatley in most of these categories RR is failing. It is not unrealistic to think a top tier porgram with Michigans resources should not be back to 8-4 and playing in a decent bowl by now.

I still think DB will give RR one more year and I think RR should get one more year. Not because he has earned but because coaches should get 4 years to get their program in place and get 4 classes/years in. I give Martin credit for rolling the dice but so far it is not working out.

The thing that probably bothered me the most is the lack of in season progress. Michigan is young, make no mistake about it. However by game 8 they should not be inexperienced. By season three there should be some experience somewhere.

The QB & Offensive line play are the only two areas perferming well. RBs, recievers, the linebackers, the secondary are not and special teams are horrible. I will leave out the D-Line because I am not certain if their issue is not scheme related.

Good or bad this is RRs team he has to be held accountable for the results and the product he puts on the field. Sten brings up many reasons why the program is not winning and having success but RR is being paid to identify those problems and fix them whatever way he sees fit. If the players do not have the talent, why did he recruit them. He hired his coaching staff, if the D is suffering unfortunately he get's some of the blame. That is what being held accountable means.

I made a bet with a buddy of mine for steak dinner that RR would not have the success at Michigan that Carr had. Yes Carr underachieved at times but the results he had will be difficult for RR to surpass I just do not think it is that easy.

I am still not calling for RR to be fired but I am getting close. If he returns next season it has to be on a short leash with true progress made in all three phases of the game and a much better record.

Go Blue !

[Columbusisawhore]

I disagree because our LBs are too slow to cover the slot. A hybrid 3-4 with a Stud Linebacker in a standup position on the line. In the defense you suggest Ezeh should be the Mike because he is slow and has no lateral coverage ability. I suggest going to a 3-4 and put Roh at the Stud position with Martin at Nose but in a shade/shadow and Saggesse at the other DT or DE position.

Roh would not get the job done at LB... he's pretty ineffective unless he has his hand in the dirt... Go 4-3 Move Roh to a DE position... Martin at DT Platoon Saggesse and Banks at DT, and RVB at the other DE position.

[Motown74]

Roh would not get the job done at LB... he's pretty ineffective unless he has his hand in the dirt... Go 4-3 Move Roh to a DE position... Martin at DT Platoon Saggesse and Banks at DT, and RVB at the other DE position.

The hybrid LB in the 3-4 scheme is a hybrid LB/DE. He can be stand up or in a 3pt stance. His responsibility is contain and rushing the passer. Perfect for him. There is a LB behind him who is responsible for the slot. You pretty much need 4-5 linebackers anymore with the passing game formations you see.

[Sten Carlson]

You guys go on and on about how RR isn't good enough for Michigan, and you also call this coaching situation an "experiment" and that it's not working. But, there is NO WAY that anyone (least of all you guys) can know these things for certain.

When you conduct an experiment whose term is set for 6 years, declaring it a failure when it's not even half complete is irrational. Further, in this experiment (if you insist upon calling it that) there are TWO factors at play: the quality of the players and the quality of the coaches. Y'all want to declare one factor predominant and controlling without first eliminating the other as potentially such. That is BAD science! Nobody can yet make the determination because RR has yet to have a depth chart (esp on def.) that is ANYWHERE CLOSE to what Michigan is used to historically. I am not eliminating the possibility that RR is the weak link, but neither am I eliminating the possibility that it is the players and NOT the coaches.

I've said this before -- the safe play is to assume eliminate the talent as factor BEFORE taking the step that CANNOT be undone. That is good science, that is rational and responsible decision making. If Michigan makes the emotional choice, there is a very real chance that things won't get better. The choice that I advocate is a hedge -- maybe RR will get things right, but he is almost 100% guaranteed to eliminate player talent as a factor at which time Michigan can be nearly certain that the next guy will have the tools necessary to succeed quickly. Until that time, it's a guessing game.

[The Blue Beaner]

Thou do'st protest too much, Sten!

And just who are you really trying to convince here?! -- A bit o' the man in the mirror, maybe?

Not to worry, My Self-deluded Bumpkin, it'll all be over at the common ending shared by the season ...and the undeniable fiasco that has been the Rodriguez Era.

[Columbusisawhore]

If Michigan makes the emotional choice, there is a very real chance that things won't get better. The choice that I advocate is a hedge -- maybe RR will get things right, but he is almost 100% guaranteed to eliminate player talent as a factor at which time Michigan can be nearly certain that the next guy will have the tools necessary to succeed quickly. Until that time, it's a guessing game.

1. The choice is no longer emotional when there are NO RESULTS to indicate progress.

2. Things may not get better, but they definitely won't get worse.

3. I understand where you're coming from about the talent being built back up. I believe a couple years ago the answer was "Wait until he gets HIS GUYS in there." Most of Carr's recruits have graduated... these ARE HIS GUYS and they aren't doing anything spectacular.

Look... I wouldn't be overly surprised either way this coaching situation goes. Do I think Rodriguez is the wrong person for Michigan YES, do I think they will be better next year if by some chance they do keep him... YES. Do i think they will ever get over the "above average" hump to being elite under Rodriguez... NO. Do I think a new coach with a new philosophy can turn things around relatively quickly... YES. SHOULD expectations at Michigan be high... YES.

[rickyleach]

Thou do'st protest too much, Sten!

And just who are you really trying to convince here?! -- A bit o' the man in the mirror, maybe?

Not to worry, My Self-deluded Bumpkin, it'll all be over at the common ending shared by the season ...and the undeniable fiasco that has been the Rodriguez Era.

norcal ,we dont care what you think .

[The Blue Beaner]

norcal ,we dont care what you think .

To the contrary, Ricky, your words betray an almost ...vested interest in my thoughts.

[bluefan]

I think you should be very careful what you say to people. You have no idea what some people know or what they don't. What their age is, when they graduated, etc.

I think someone who is proud of themselves for stating that they would've tried to beat me up in college (and I don't know that you could've taken me) is the one who should be ashamed of themselves. And also, after defending myself, I would've had you arrested. Not smart.

You are the tuffest guy on the interwebs. Arrested? Really? Haw!

[bluefan]

norcal ,we dont care what you think .

Yeah, why is this fuck still here?

[The Blue Beaner]

Yeah, why is this fuck still here?

Just for the "fuck" of it? http://mothersoasis.com/images/smilies/shrug_n.gif

[rickyleach]

To the contrary, Ricky, your words betray an almost ...vested interest in my thoughts.

so you are located in california, did anyone tell you you cant where mini skirts out there, because your balls will hang down to low.

[The Blue Beaner]

so you are located in california [...]

Am I (>"?")?


...did anyone tell you you cant where mini skirts out there, because your balls will hang down to low.

So you're telling me that my balls are too big?

[Wolvrin704]

Can't believe no one caught the "vested interest" comment.

[amazinblue]

... this is at least a 6-loss season...

Tapeloop,

Any other insights or prognostications you'd like to share?

[The Blue Beaner]

704,


Can't believe no one caught the "vested interest" comment.

What's so hard to believe about that?

This discussion board isn't exactly loaded with Mensa candidates. ;)

[Wolvrin704]

704,



What's so hard to believe about that?

This discussion board isn't exactly loaded with Mensa candidates. ;)

True, I'll give you that.

[bighousemike84]

True, I'll give you that.

what are you trying to say?

[Wolvrin704]

what are you trying to say?

We have NUT and his brothers here which brings down the braintrust on this board. :)