Rich Rod gets an E

[ronleflore]

:eek:There seems to be some confusion between being an avid fan /supporter of the program, and criticism. I have read some posts, which vilify criticism of RR, akin to Bush's labeling "un-American" those who disagreed with his position.

Let's face it, 3-9 was a disgrace. RR had way more talent on the filed against Toledo and NW, and still lost at the Big House . Excuses include "Oh Lloyd left the cupboard bare".

I hope RR does really well, but let's not confuse being a fan with "I will support RR whatever happens, and I dare not speak ill against him"

3-9 with that defense was a disgrace. I give RR a grade of E. First year was a failure.

[Sten Carlson]

:eek:There seems to be some confusion between being an avid fan /supporter of the program, and criticism. I have read some posts, which vilify criticism of RR, akin to Bush's labeling "un-American" those who disagreed with his position.

Let's face it, 3-9 was a disgrace. RR had way more talent on the filed against Toledo and NW, and still lost at the Big House . Excuses include "Oh Lloyd left the cupboard bare".

I hope RR does really well, but let's not confuse being a fan with "I will support RR whatever happens, and I dare not speak ill against him"

3-9 with that defense was a disgrace. I give RR a grade of E. First year was a failure.


You've said nothing new, nor have you proved anything of substance. So what? Why should anyone care a) what you think, or b) what happened last year? It's over, the lessons have been learned, things are being changed, and steps have been taken to right the ship. Continually making reference to "failure" isn't productive, and in my opinion, is down right boring.

I don't think that people have to say, "my coach right or wrong," necessarily, but I also think that sanity and maturity dictate that people should give RR a chance to do what he does, before passing judgment on his performance.

Read about the recruits, the new DC, Tate coming in, etc., and you'll see that there is a lot of positive things going on, and the future looks bright!

Go Blue!

[GoDeepHammer]

:eek:There seems to be some confusion between being an avid fan /supporter of the program, and criticism. I have read some posts, which vilify criticism of RR, akin to Bush's labeling "un-American" those who disagreed with his position.

Let's face it, 3-9 was a disgrace. RR had way more talent on the filed against Toledo and NW, and still lost at the Big House . Excuses include "Oh Lloyd left the cupboard bare".

I hope RR does really well, but let's not confuse being a fan with "I will support RR whatever happens, and I dare not speak ill against him"

3-9 with that defense was a disgrace. I give RR a grade of E. First year was a failure.

I support RR as long as he is our coach. I don't like the 3-9 season, there were many factors that led to it, but I support our coaching staff and our players.

The team received an F, for a grade, as you can't blame RR for the fumbles and missed tackles. It took the entire team to play poorly, couple that with the lack of experience at many positions and we ended up at 3-9.

[tpilews]

:eek:There seems to be some confusion between being an avid fan /supporter of the program, and criticism. I have read some posts, which vilify criticism of RR, akin to Bush's labeling "un-American" those who disagreed with his position.

Let's face it, 3-9 was a disgrace. RR had way more talent on the filed against Toledo and NW, and still lost at the Big House . Excuses include "Oh Lloyd left the cupboard bare".

I hope RR does really well, but let's not confuse being a fan with "I will support RR whatever happens, and I dare not speak ill against him"

3-9 with that defense was a disgrace. I give RR a grade of E. First year was a failure.

This topic has been discussed countless times on here. But, I guess we'll do it again.

2008 sucked, no doubt about it.

The talent was missing at skilled positions. QB was the biggest. No depth at O-line. UM loses probably the best lineman on the team before the season starts (no, not Boren, Zirbel). In general, no experience anywhere on the offensive side of the ball. You also take into account a brand new offense, and you see why 3-9 happened. Nobody could have predicted how poor Threet's throwing would have been. We'll see next year what an accurate qb can do with a little experience around him. I truly think 8 wins should be the bar.

[Don Unverferth]

You've said nothing new, nor have you proved anything of substance. So what? Why should anyone care a) what you think, or b) what happened last year? It's over, the lessons have been learned, things are being changed, and steps have been taken to right the ship. Continually making reference to "failure" isn't productive, and in my opinion, is down right boring.

I don't think that people have to say, "my coach right or wrong," necessarily, but I also think that sanity and maturity dictate that people should give RR a chance to do what he does, before passing judgment on his performance.

Read about the recruits, the new DC, Tate coming in, etc., and you'll see that there is a lot of positive things going on, and the future looks bright!

Go Blue!

Give it a rest. The dribble last year was "give RR a chance to coach a game before you criticize". Well, he's had his chance. What ever happened to the head coach being responsible for his team? It would be immature and down right stupid to pull the covers over your head and not state the obvious. Free speech is a wonderful thing. Don't let Sten stand in your way Ron.

[tpilews]

Give it a rest. The dribble last year was "give RR a chance to coach a game before you criticize". Well, he's had his chance. What ever happened to the head coach being responsible for his team? It would be immature and down right stupid to pull the covers over your head and not state the obvious. Free speech is a wonderful thing. Don't let Sten stand in your way Ron.

I think most of us have already said that last year sucked. RR is partly to be blamed as are the players for not performing. RR wasn't my first choice for HC, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to give him a chance. He's the coach and I support the team.

[blueisbetterthanred]

I haven't seen too much actual criticism of Rod's tactics on here that actually discuss what he does. Mostly what I see is, "3-9? He must be fired!! Disgraceful!! We are michigan!!!" Those are the comments that are uneducated and uninformed.

Most people have said you can't judge a new ground up system in only one year and only ridicule those who naively call for his dismissal without understanding what happened.

[Buzz]

I see poor game planning as the number one reason for the disaster that was last season. The DBL R fell on his face.

I think you gotta criticize him for the results that he was so eloquently able to acquire, but that doesn't end all things. I've already said during last season that it was RichRod that was going to need to make the biggest adjustment in order for Michigan to become a powerhouse program again.

So far, I think that the Michigan coaches have made an adjustment. This upcoming season will be all about the players, and what improvements have they made. Will they improve from last season?

[bigboyBlue]

Whats great for me is that (most) Michigan fans are pretty understanding of the situation, and agree that RRod should have the ship righted in another 2 years. If not, then there is legitimate call for some serious concern.

However, the rest of the world seems to think the sky has fallen. Short-sighted statements like "gee, 3-9...that is all" are a little too misinformed.

I mean we're talking about a program here where during conditioning, THEY NEVER USED FREE WEIGHTS!!! Even the recreational lifter understands the limited benefits of machine exercises. It may be one point, but I think it is indicative of the closed and outdated nature of the program in other aspects too. You can't change things overnight, especially with 18-20 year olds who are adapting, hesistantly sometimes, to something new.

So, in a nutshell, all you non-fans thinking he should be canned, pls go fcuk yourselves.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

Give it a rest. The dribble last year was "give RR a chance to coach a game before you criticize". Well, he's had his chance. What ever happened to the head coach being responsible for his team? It would be immature and down right stupid to pull the covers over your head and not state the obvious. Free speech is a wonderful thing. Don't let Sten stand in your way Ron.

Is this the first place you come every morning?? seriously you trolls need to get a life, the day i wake up and go to an osu board. pathetic

[GoBlue21]

What a waste of a thread, it's over with! You can't live in the past so look to the present and future.

Nobody cares about your grading scale, this topic has been discussed a thousand times, move on already!

Let's talk about the current staff, players, schedule, stadium upgrades, etc...

[Don Unverferth]

I think most of us have already said that last year sucked. RR is partly to be blamed as are the players for not performing. RR wasn't my first choice for HC, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to give him a chance. He's the coach and I support the team.

As you should but you have to be apprehensive about this guy. Not only is his coaching ability in question but his moral character is questionable as well. He’s only been there a year but it seems like 5 because of all the negative press.

[BLEEDINGBLUE]

It's funny, everyone is laughing at us (the ones who said give RR a chance) and are now putting him and his supporters down. Well lets put this in a different perspective. I am a conservative Republican and current NRA member. When I heard that Obama wanted to take guns away from citizens and only allow our police officers to have them I was pissed. Actually there are a lot of things I don't agree with and still don't however he is my President and there is nothing I can do about it so I am going to support him. There is no sense in bashing him or his cabinet or RR and his coaching staff so why can't people just support RR? I just don't get it. You haters are getting yourself all worked up for nothing. I mean seriously do you think RR cares? He doesn't give shit what you think so after all is said and done, the only people that hurt and wasted their energy are the haters, not the believers.

[tpilews]

As you should but you have to be apprehensive about this guy. Not only is his coaching ability in question but his moral character is questionable as well. He’s only been there a year but it seems like 5 because of all the negative press.

I'm not apprehensive about him, yet. If we're still talking .500 ball in two more season, then, yeah, I'll start to question.

All the negative press is because the media hates UM. You never hear about any other school on espn, newspapers, etc... The only way I know about stuff is from online. That shit never gets reported. But, every little thing RR does is reported. "Ohh, he just took a piss the wrong way, call a press conference. "

[tpilews]

As you should but you have to be apprehensive about this guy. Not only is his coaching ability in question but his moral character is questionable as well. He’s only been there a year but it seems like 5 because of all the negative press.

I don't think his coaching ability is in question. You can't judge that right now, not after one season. You can look at his body of work, however. Every place he's coached at, he's turned around. I'm willing, and 99% of UM are too, to give him a chance to succeed at UM. He's obviously doing something right; he's got a great recruiting class coming in. #1 recruit from Michigan AND Ohio (per rivals). Pulled in some great recruits from Florida. One of the top qb prospects in the nation. Top 10 class, could potentially be a top 5.

[Blue In Ohio]

Just what makes his character questionable? Because he chose to take a better job??? I don't suppose all you buckeye fans have a problem with the fact that ol sweatervest left a school to come to yours. What the hell difference does it make if he left somewhere else and came here? This has been going on for since day one of college football. Since when do coaches have to stay at one program for their entire career? You don't think for a minute that the moral high ground buckeyes wouldn't be looking to steal Bryan Kelly if sweatervest left your program today? I can tolerate you judging him based on the poor performance of last year but please save the hypocracy for later. Yes we were bad last year but we can only get better.

[GoBlue21]

Just what makes his character questionable? Because he chose to take a better job??? I don't suppose all you buckeye fans have a problem with the fact that ol sweatervest left a school to come to yours. What the hell difference does it make if he left somewhere else and came here? This has been going on for since day one of college football. Since when do coaches have to stay at one program for their entire career? You don't think for a minute that the moral high ground buckeyes wouldn't be looking to steal Bryan Kelly if sweatervest left your program today? I can tolerate you judging him based on the poor performance of last year but please save the hypocracy for later. Yes we were bad last year but we can only get better.

You're thinking to logically for these clowns. Nobody takes a better job with higher pay anymore, that's not the right thing to do. You're suppose to just stay put until you retire or get fired, that's the norm...:rolleyes:

[Don Unverferth]

I'm not apprehensive about him, yet. If we're still talking .500 ball in two more season, then, yeah, I'll start to question.

All the negative press is because the media hates UM. You never hear about any other school on espn, newspapers, etc... The only way I know about stuff is from online. That shit never gets reported. But, every little thing RR does is reported. "Ohh, he just took a piss the wrong way, call a press conference. "

Sorry, the media's ugly step child would be tOSU. It's just that RRod is making UM a close second these days.

[LAMfan]

:eek:There seems to be some confusion between being an avid fan /supporter of the program, and criticism. I have read some posts, which vilify criticism of RR, akin to Bush's labeling "un-American" those who disagreed with his position.

Let's face it, 3-9 was a disgrace. RR had way more talent on the filed against Toledo and NW, and still lost at the Big House . Excuses include "Oh Lloyd left the cupboard bare".

I hope RR does really well, but let's not confuse being a fan with "I will support RR whatever happens, and I dare not speak ill against him"

3-9 with that defense was a disgrace. I give RR a grade of E. First year was a failure.

Ron I agree with your assessment of the discourse, though I have found that several here will engage in thoughtful debates, provided their is some real substance brought forth. In prior threads, we have probably beaten to death the topic of appropriate time for judgment and RRs reponsibility for only three wins. I am one who believes the 2008 season is reason to have some doubts, but the opinions of others made me take a long hard look at the team and come to the conclusion that we really didn't have much talent, either inherent skills or experience, to expect much different. My biggest concerns were that RR did not seems to adjust to his players, but put round pegs in square holes, and that maybe he is really a "genius" because of Pat White's amazing skill. So now what has happened....he is getting his style of players in, and the potential freshman QB starter will be supported by a team that has a year of the new system under their belt. Had he played for a few more wins in 2008 by not installing his system fully, we'd probably be in a worse position going into 2009. I'm not Miss Clara, so I won't predict 2009, but I hope to see more diversity in the offense, better execution and fewer turnovers. If these things happen, then we are likely in good shape, due to choices RR made. Even though 2008 was bad, really bad, we may have to wait until we can fully grade RR's performance. He might have made the right choices: feel some short term pain for long term gain.

[Sten Carlson]

Give it a rest. The dribble last year was "give RR a chance to coach a game before you criticize". Well, he's had his chance. What ever happened to the head coach being responsible for his team? It would be immature and down right stupid to pull the covers over your head and not state the obvious. Free speech is a wonderful thing. Don't let Sten stand in your way Ron.

Don,

I am not standing in the way of anyone's way to express their freedom of speech, nor am I "pulling the covers over" my head.

All I've ever said to anyone concerning RR is to give the guy his chance to make the changes, implement the new schemes, and most of all, GET HIS PLAYERS IN PLACE.

What is the obvious that you'd like me to state? That 3-9 is not a good season. Ok, it's not. Would you also like me to state that it's all RR's fault and that he should be held responsible for it, fine. The 3-9 2008 season was ALL RR's fault. He fucked up, and let us all down! Are you happy now.

However, all that being said, I still don't care. It's in the past, and there were some pretty powerful mitigating circumstances that contributed to his "failure". I am focused on the future of Michigan Football, not the past. The only reason that I commented on what the guy said was because he's beating a dead horse. Whether you think it was RR's fault or not, he's still the coach, he's not going anywhere for at least four years, and I think that being positive about this upcoming season is important, and constantly looking back at the 2008 is pointless and, as I said, boring!

Don, you're always here trying to stir up the hornets nest, but you never have anything this say of any substance, on venom! The fact that you try to claim that I am some how infringing upon someone's 1st Amendment rights show just how much of a RETARD you are!

[Don Unverferth]

Don,

I am not standing in the way of anyone's way to express their freedom of speech, nor am I "pulling the covers over" my head.

All I've ever said to anyone concerning RR is to give the guy his chance to make the changes, implement the new schemes, and most of all, GET HIS PLAYERS IN PLACE.

What is the obvious that you'd like me to state? That 3-9 is not a good season. Ok, it's not. Would you also like me to state that it's all RR's fault and that he should be held responsible for it, fine. The 3-9 2008 season was ALL RR's fault. He fucked up, and let us all down! Are you happy now.

However, all that being said, I still don't care. It's in the past, and there were some pretty powerful mitigating circumstances that contributed to his "failure". I am focused on the future of Michigan Football, not the past. The only reason that I commented on what the guy said was because he's beating a dead horse. Whether you think it was RR's fault or not, he's still the coach, he's not going anywhere for at least four years, and I think that being positive about this upcoming season is important, and constantly looking back at the 2008 is pointless and, as I said, boring!
!

Please. I'll give him 2 more years. BTW, thanks for another "Bud Light Real Men Of Genius" version of the current state of UM football. :rolleyes:

[BLEEDINGBLUE]

Do you really think Obama is gonna fix this economy in a year?

[UM FAN in VA]

RR is a fucking billiant coach..to get 3 wins out of that "pathetic" offense is nothing short of amazing.

By pathetic offense..I mean no experience. An O-line that had no game experience..we're talking sophs who's last game experience was high school, you think a high school line has a chance against a college D? Sophmore linemen get beat like red-headed step children ALL the time at other schools..what makes the other places better? they usually have a Junior or a Senior lineman next to them to help bail their ass out.

Next year will be better, but newflash here...not much. Sure the line will be improved due to game experience. The QB is a huge question mark...and guess what, if it's a freshman starter..expect freshman mistakes. People expect an off year at other programs when installing a new signal caller, Unfortunately..with a 3-9 record, you can't really factor an off year into that.

As far as last years D goes, how can you bash a D that only gave up an average of 7 more points a game this year over last year with the extra time spent on the field due to a 3 and out freshman offense? Try comparing Minutes played to points allowed.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

RR is a fucking billiant coach..to get 3 wins out of that "pathetic" offense is nothing short of amazing.

By pathetic offense..I mean no experience. An O-line that had no game experience..we're talking sophs who's last game experience was high school, you think a high school line has a chance against a college D? Sophmore linemen get beat like red-headed step children ALL the time at other schools..what makes the other places better? they usually have a Junior or a Senior lineman next to them to help bail their ass out.

Next year will be better, but newflash here...not much. Sure the line will be improved due to game experience. The QB is a huge question mark...and guess what, if it's a freshman starter..expect freshman mistakes. People expect an off year at other programs when installing a new signal caller, Unfortunately..with a 3-9 record, you can't really factor an off year into that.

As far as last years D goes, how can you bash a D that only gave up an average of 7 more points a game this year over last year with the extra time spent on the field due to a 3 and out freshman offense? Try comparing Minutes played to points allowed.


The biggest difference btw last year and this year is during last years spring and summer practices they were learning the offense, this coming years camp they will be practicing an offense they already know. That along with more experienced players will give us atleast 4 more wins next year imo.

[Buzz]

RichRod gets an "E". I can agree with that for last season. What you want to think about is how high the ceiling is in terms of how successful Michigan can be during the coming years.

In order to make an attempt at reach that ceiling you can't think about what you don't want to have happen, you must think and plan in opposition to said mindset. I think this is what the Michigan football program and most fans of the program are doing right now.

but talking about how high a given program's ceiling is....what is osu doing to get better?

This program is at the top of the B10 and in recruiting rankings every year, but they're consistently getting the hammer drop on them every time they play top out of conference teams.....year end and year out.

So, is osu getting better? What will your record look like going into the B10 season this coming year? This question is for any buck fan who has the bolas to respond. I don't wanna hear any excuses like "we're losing a lot players" and so on.

[Swoosh]

Until he punches a Kid he still has one up on the Great Mr. Hayes as far as character goes.;)

He went 3-9 his first year in WV also, and then won the division.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

but talking about how high a given program's ceiling is....what is osu doing to get better?

This program is at the top of the B10 and in recruiting rankings every year, but they're consistently getting the hammer drop on them every time they play top out of conference teams.....year end and year out.

So, is osu getting better? What will your record look like going into the B10 season this coming year? This question is for any buck fan who has the bolas to respond. I don't wanna hear any excuses like "we're losing a lot players" and so on.

Don't hold your breath.

[bluestimestwo]

I am not sure what any coach would do when he doesn't have a QB on the roster that can complete a pass to wide-open receivers. Run the ball? Not with a completely inexperienced offensive line. The tools were just not there, and all RR could do was to try and get the players experience within the system. The cupboard was bare in the most essential areas.

It is interesting that the Toledo and NW games were brought up. Both were very close games. Without some horrible Threet meatball passes ("Threet-balls") and some bad luck, those are wins.

Toledo - 100 yard pick-6 thrown by Threet, in addition to the fumble that we returned for a touchdown early on that the refs blew dead. 14-point swing (or more, since we were in the red zone when he threw the pick) in a 3 point loss.

NW - Threet overthrows a wide open Massey and turns an easy TD into a pick, and the Warren pick returned for a TD was incorrectly ruled out of bounds. 14-point swing in a 7 point loss.

Add to those games Sheridan's horrible pick at the end of the 1st half of the Utah game (gift of 3 points in a two-point loss), and we are only a few plays away from 6-6 and a bowl game, despite our inexperience and sloppy play.

Also, our D was consistently solid on 1st and 2nd down, and horrible on third. The average defensive series was something like: loss of 2, loss of 1, conversion of 3rd-and-13, gain of one, sack for loss of 7, conversion of 3rd-and 16, and so on. Just a little help in the secondary and the D will look a lot better too.

For as young and inexperienced as we were, the team was only a couple of breaks away from a mediocre transition rather than a horrible one.

[bigboyBlue]

I am not sure what any coach would do when he doesn't have a QB on the roster that can complete a pass to wide-open receivers. Run the ball? Not with a completely inexperienced offensive line. The tools were just not there, and all RR could do was to try and get the players experience within the system. The cupboard was bare in the most essential areas.

It is interesting that the Toledo and NW games were brought up. Both were very close games. Without some horrible Threet meatball passes ("Threet-balls") and some bad luck, those are wins.

Toledo - 100 yard pick-6 thrown by Threet, in addition to the fumble that we returned for a touchdown early on that the refs blew dead. 14-point swing (or more, since we were in the red zone when he threw the pick) in a 3 point loss.

NW - Threet overthrows a wide open Massey and turns an easy TD into a pick, and the Warren pick returned for a TD was incorrectly ruled out of bounds. 14-point swing in a 7 point loss.

Add to those games Sheridan's horrible pick at the end of the 1st half of the Utah game (gift of 3 points in a two-point loss), and we are only a few plays away from 6-6 and a bowl game, despite our inexperience and sloppy play.

Also, our D was consistently solid on 1st and 2nd down, and horrible on third. The average defensive series was something like: loss of 2, loss of 1, conversion of 3rd-and-13, gain of one, sack for loss of 7, conversion of 3rd-and 16, and so on. Just a little help in the secondary and the D will look a lot better too.

For as young and inexperienced as we were, the team was only a couple of breaks away from a mediocre transition rather than a horrible one.

Don't forget the billion turnovers and dropped balls at ND.

[GoDeepHammer]

All that and we were still only 3 or 4 plays away being 6-6.

[bigboyBlue]

All that and we were still only 3 or 4 plays away being 6-6.

Hell, if we had more experience and actually played for a full 60 minutes, we'd have more. I remember the first few drives of the PSU game, that damn fine Lions D was backpedaling and on its butt the entire time....

[GoDeepHammer]

Hell, if we had more experience and actually played for a full 60 minutes, we'd have more. I remember the first few drives of the PSU game, that damn fine Lions D was backpedaling and on its butt the entire time....

I know, I'm just saying that as much inexperience that we had and as bad as we played we were very close to 6-6. I think that as time passes into this year, we will be on our way.

[Buzz]

Don't hold your breath.

Everybody know what's going on here.

[ronleflore]

You've said nothing new, nor have you proved anything of substance. So what? Why should anyone care a) what you think, or b) what happened last year? It's over, the lessons have been learned, things are being changed, and steps have been taken to right the ship. Continually making reference to "failure" isn't productive, and in my opinion, is down right boring.

I don't think that people have to say, "my coach right or wrong," necessarily, but I also think that sanity and maturity dictate that people should give RR a chance to do what he does, before passing judgment on his performance.

Read about the recruits, the new DC, Tate coming in, etc., and you'll see that there is a lot of positive things going on, and the future looks bright!

Go Blue!

Sten,
so we disagree, but we are still fans. When a coach makes 2.5M, plus a buy- out, he deserves a little scrutiny. I am not trying to prove anything of substance, just giving an opinion like a lot of other yahoos. I routinely read Rivals recruiting updates, and I think the class is rated about #8, with 5 or 6 early signees already. I definitely give RR a chance and sure the hell hope he suceeds. I passed judgement on one year's performance. Sorry if that offends your sensitivities.

One other non verifyable or substantative comment, "you give that same team to Bo, and he beats Toledo, NW, and Utah". The Utah game was there! Bo probably beats State too for spite!
:p

[ironhide]

So while she is sleeping I will post here. If she wakes up and reads this my aass is grass and she rides a lawn mower.
RR's first season was not what we hoped. It is quite clear now that from day one he intended to change everything and do that right away. He would up changing so much that all cohesiveness was lost and the season was thrown away. I don't like that. But I can accept it was necessary to some degree.
Now, he has separated that which he wants from that which he doesn't , from the current roster. Now, he is bringing in his own type of players. He had hired a DC, maybe the best available at the time, maybe not. That person was a profound failure and as let go. Now, he has made an AWESOME DC hire, getting not only a great defensive coach but an assistant HC and a recruiter to boot. His recruiting so far this year has been really good.
I think we will see steady and rapid rise in this program, to the top of college football. None of us really know RR's offense, but he certainly does. When the spread is done correctly it is UNSTOPPABLE. The defense does not know where they are going to be hit next.
Next season will be thoroughly enjoyable and I would not want to be OSU coming into Ann Arbor in November. Of course, they will have already lost 3-4 games, by then. It won't mean much after USC, MSU and either Wisconsin or Northwestern tear them up. But NOBODY replaces 12 starters or part time players and still wins.

[Sten Carlson]

When a coach makes 2.5M, plus a buy- out, he deserves a little scrutiny.

Firstly, I don't think it really matters how much a coach makes, he's always going to deserve a little scrutiny, as you say. However, a little scrutiny, doesn't even compare to what guys like RTB et. al. (not that I am comparing you to him) are doing in their questioning of RR. Great teams and great coaches have lets downs, many times in the beginning. Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 or something in his first season as Dallas' head coach, and look what happened after that. If Jerry Jones had been less patient, he might never have won this rings.

I suppose you just struck a nerve Ron -- I am so sick of the belly-aching and complaining, and the constant lamenting about 3-9 being "unacceptable" and that RR needs to be "held accountable" -- as if he should be fired after his first season. I am glad that we were so bad last season. Even though I was there pulling for them every game, and I wanted Michigan to win, it was kind of nice to see us really show the true decrepit state that Carr and his people left the program in -- I think a good blood letting, a purge, and enema is just what this program needed. Sometimes in life you have to get worse before you get better, and I am willing to accept that.


One other non verifyable or substantative comment, "you give that same team to Bo, and he beats Toledo, NW, and Utah". The Utah game was there! Bo probably beats State too for spite!
:p

You said it, unverifiable Ron. Although it is fun to muse about, I don't think that Bo, nor RR, nor any coach for that matter can "win" a game -- although they can certainly lose them. That is what makes being a head coach of any sport, but especially football so difficult. You can do everything right, you can have he right scheme in place, make the right adjustments, but if when the chips are down your guys just don't execute, or the other guys execute better, you might lose. Last year, in many instances, the plays were there, the WRs were open, there was a hole for the RB, or the defense was in the right position to make plays, but they all simply didn't. Does Bo's mythic presence on the sidelines change that? Perhaps, but I doubt it. The only thing that changes that is the heart, pride, and determination of the players themselves.

I don't doubt your fanhood Ron, nor am I (as d-bag Don is suggesting) trying to stand in the way of your right to express your opinion. I just think that the sooner that we all stop thinking about last season, and start focusing on all the good that is going on NOW, and the plans and strategies that RR and his staff are implementing for the future of Michigan Football, the better.

Go Blue!

[ronleflore]

So while she is sleeping I will post here. If she wakes up and reads this my aass is grass and she rides a lawn mower.
RR's first season was not what we hoped. It is quite clear now that from day one he intended to change everything and do that right away. He would up changing so much that all cohesiveness was lost and the season was thrown away. I don't like that. But I can accept it was necessary to some degree.
Now, he has separated that which he wants from that which he doesn't , from the current roster. Now, he is bringing in his own type of players. He had hired a DC, maybe the best available at the time, maybe not. That person was a profound failure and as let go. Now, he has made an AWESOME DC hire, getting not only a great defensive coach but an assistant HC and a recruiter to boot. His recruiting so far this year has been really good.
I think we will see steady and rapid rise in this program, to the top of college football. None of us really know RR's offense, but he certainly does. When the spread is done correctly it is UNSTOPPABLE. The defense does not know where they are going to be hit next.
Next season will be thoroughly enjoyable and I would not want to be OSU coming into Ann Arbor in November. Of course, they will have already lost 3-4 games, by then. It won't mean much after USC, MSU and either Wisconsin or Northwestern tear them up. But NOBODY replaces 12 starters or part time players and still wins.

I dont think sparty and buckeye compete in 09

[ronleflore]

Firstly, I don't think it really matters how much a coach makes, he's always going to deserve a little scrutiny, as you say. However, a little scrutiny, doesn't even compare to what guys like RTB et. al. (not that I am comparing you to him) are doing in their questioning of RR. Great teams and great coaches have lets downs, many times in the beginning. Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 or something in his first season as Dallas' head coach, and look what happened after that. If Jerry Jones had been less patient, he might never have won this rings.

I suppose you just struck a nerve Ron -- I am so sick of the belly-aching and complaining, and the constant lamenting about 3-9 being "unacceptable" and that RR needs to be "held accountable" -- as if he should be fired after his first season. I am glad that we were so bad last season. Even though I was there pulling for them every game, and I wanted Michigan to win, it was kind of nice to see us really show the true decrepit state that Carr and his people left the program in -- I think a good blood letting, a purge, and enema is just what this program needed. Sometimes in life you have to get worse before you get better, and I am willing to accept that.



You said it, unverifiable Ron. Although it is fun to muse about, I don't think that Bo, nor RR, nor any coach for that matter can "win" a game -- although they can certainly lose them. That is what makes being a head coach of any sport, but especially football so difficult. You can do everything right, you can have he right scheme in place, make the right adjustments, but if when the chips are down your guys just don't execute, or the other guys execute better, you might lose. Last year, in many instances, the plays were there, the WRs were open, there was a hole for the RB, or the defense was in the right position to make plays, but they all simply didn't. Does Bo's mythic presence on the sidelines change that? Perhaps, but I doubt it. The only thing that changes that is the heart, pride, and determination of the players themselves.

I don't doubt your fanhood Ron, nor am I (as d-bag Don is suggesting) trying to stand in the way of your right to express your opinion. I just think that the sooner that we all stop thinking about last season, and start focusing on all the good that is going on NOW, and the plans and strategies that RR and his staff are implementing for the future of Michigan Football, the better.

Go Blue!

Yes you are Cornholio, do not feel so threateed. Respectfully, Ron

[The Michigan Man]

:eek:There seems to be some confusion between being an avid fan /supporter of the program, and criticism. I have read some posts, which vilify criticism of RR, akin to Bush's labeling "un-American" those who disagreed with his position.

Let's face it, 3-9 was a disgrace. RR had way more talent on the filed against Toledo and NW, and still lost at the Big House . Excuses include "Oh Lloyd left the cupboard bare".

I hope RR does really well, but let's not confuse being a fan with "I will support RR whatever happens, and I dare not speak ill against him"

3-9 with that defense was a disgrace. I give RR a grade of E. First year was a failure.

Okay, Ron, I guess we have to go through this again. (Yes its late, and no, I haven't been drinking!)

The distinction isn't between "being an avid fan /supporter of the program, and criticism": it is between being a short-term, "me now", instant gratification obsessed Chicken Little and being a patient fan of the program that allows a reasonable amount of time for a transition / rebuilding. Most of us in this forum are the latter.

How is it value added to slander a coach of the program you profess to love? Returning 1 starter on offense, starting inexperienced players at most skilled positions (including QB), and returning a defense that got torched by App St last year, mixed with a new coaching regime, is not a winning recipe. If it makes you feel better to pout and give the coach an "E", hey, be that type of fan. I have no use for it.

I want us to win as much as anybody. I knew this 1st year would be rough, and have been relatively easy on RR as he is assembling his recruits and getting his offense/defense in place. In year 2, I'm not going to be nearly as patient or forgiving. I expect to see a reasonable amount of progress, or I'm going to start criticizing him in the same manner that I did Carr for the 4-5 years prior to his departure.

I'm not a blind "homer", I have the interests of the Michigan program in mind, which is bigger than a single coach. But lets have some realistic expectations and some emotional maturity about this, and give RR a chance to field a team that he recruited running his schemes - at that point, a full assessment / grading will be sensible.

[cartyboi]

History will repeat itself. RR's second year is always a ridiculous improvement from his first year in programs. I'm not worried. I'll bet you give him an "A" next year.

[Seger]

The bottom line for me is that it's all about the big picture. If I wasn't confident that RR would have Michigan back on top, then I too would probably be overly critical about his first year. But the fact is that he's done this before, more than once. Check out what the Bleacher Report had to say last month when comparing Stewart's first year at WVA and RR's.


"Stewart's first season was better than former coach Rich Rodriguez's. WVU ended the regular season with an 8-4 overall record and a 5-2 conference record. Rodriguez's first season as the Mountaineers head coach sported a 3-8 overall and a 1-6 conference. The difference really is that Stewart walked into a great situation at WVU, whereas Rodriguez fixed his team in one year by going 9-4 overall and 6-1 conference in his second year. Rodriguez pulled off the biggest turnaround in Big East history, so don't worry if your a Michigan Wolverines fan. Wait until Rodriguez gets his players in there; Michigan will be the top team of the Big Ten."

[NCBLUE]

Hopefully Seger is right.

As frustrating as last season was we need to be patient.

Give him 3-4 years.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

He should get an I for incomplete, because he had no good players. If we still suck two years from now with his players then give him an F and fire him, i have faith that wont happen though I cant think of another coach that has more potential upside than RR does at michigan.

[ronleflore]

Do you really think Obama is gonna fix this economy in a year?

Not a hope. But if you are comparing W to Lloyd, that doesn't hold up. At leas5t lloyd won a NC, and didn't invade anyone.