forcier vs robinson

[nc wolverine]

ok... im thrilled. i get to start the debate on who will be michigans starting qb.
honestly i ruled out threet...
forcier vs robinson.
forcier seems to be the best overall (passing with good legs)
robinson seems to be the best athlete.
tate got in early and has already started training. so he gets my vote
but i am not counting out robinson. his highlight videos are impressive

so... what do you all think?

[tpilews]

I still think Tate gets the nod on Sept 5th. He's got a leg up on Denard because he's already in AA. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I think Tate is the most ready qb recruit in the '09 class.

Denard's certainly has a ton of athleticism, so he's gonna see some snaps.

[StevieBrownforHeisman]

it's interesting because all three have their strengths and weaknesses. Denard is a great athlete with a good arm but won't be able to learn the offense until the summer. Forcier lacks game experience but is undeniably a great athlete with an accurate arm; and Threet has toughness and experience on his side, as well as a year+ with Rod's playbook.

my vote goes for the season opener begin a Threet/Denard combo, with forcier maybe getting a series or two based on how the game is going.
i think after about 4-5 games we will see a shift to more of a Forcier/Denard combo, because denard is going to hrut people with his legs. i think we will have a full fledged QB controversy NEXT season.

[deltguy2]

Who cares, as long as Threet and Sherridan dont ever see the field again, we should be okay. I say the majority of the snaps go to Tate, but I would like to see 'Nard worked in there every once in a while as well. He will need to be game ready incase anything happens to Tate...either way, we are in 100% better shape than we were last season at this time.

[W0lv3r1n3]

I still think Tate gets the nod on Sept 5th. He's got a leg up on Denard because he's already in AA. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I think Tate is the most ready qb recruit in the '09 class.

Denard's certainly has a ton of athleticism, so he's gonna see some snaps.

I agree. I also feel that Threet will be more of a contender for the starting job than most realize.

[nc wolverine]

i disagree. I dont think will be a factor. I think rr just put up with him. He wasnt the qb rr wanted. He got who he wanted and i think threets playing days r over. I kinda feel bad for him. Then i watch highlights to the season and then dont.

[bigboyBlue]

Call me crazy, but I think we'll see Threet start next year, and the frosh get some snaps to get used to the speed of the college game. I am as excited about this class (and DRob/Forcier in particular) as anyone, but football is mostly not an instant gratification sport where you can seamlessly plug someone in right away, unlike basketball. Especially in the QB position, game experience is invaluable. I have an easier time seeing Campbell starting than any of these two.

That being said, I think one of them will end the season as a clear starter.

[1OSUNUT]

If Threet starts then the two QB's that you got this year are highly overated. What would be the benifit of playing Threet if he is not going to be the man. The Buckeyes gave Todd Boeckman the lions share of the snaps in the whole offseason - that led TP to play catch up all year. Michigan cannot win with Threet and it will hurt the team long term if he is the starter. Both the kids you had this year were horrible and they did not improve much if any all season. The two kids coming in should be as good as them already.

[nc wolverine]

i cant believe i am saying this .... but i agree with u nut

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

If Threet starts then the two QB's that you got this year are highly overated. What would be the benifit of playing Threet if he is not going to be the man. The Buckeyes gave Todd Boeckman the lions share of the snaps in the whole offseason - that led TP to play catch up all year. Michigan cannot win with Threet and it will hurt the team long term if he is the starter. Both the kids you had this year were horrible and they did not improve much if any all season. The two kids coming in should be as good as them already.

Your logic is beyond retarded. Threet was surrounded by a horrible inexperienced offense this year, to say if they dont start from day one they are over rated is just dumb and you know it. Ill be shocked if Threet never sees the field next year, he should improve greatly over the off season along with the rest of the team. That being said I think both tate and d-rob will see alot of playing time, and after reading about robinson and his speed im pumped. a sub 4.4 guy at qb that can throw!! if he becomes a solid passer (just watching his videos looks like a better passer than pryor) he will be extremely dangerous and you trolls know it. Aside from losing Graves and DQ this class is amazing like absolutely amazing considering our season last year.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

i cant believe i am saying this .... but i agree with u nut

Why?? were we 3-9 last year because of threet?? not even close, and neither tate nor d-rob were even ranked in the top 125, they arent rated super high. robinson wasnt even ranked as a QB. so if they dont come in and start from day one (which .5% of QB recruits do) they are overrated??

[nc wolverine]

Why?? were we 3-9 last year because of threet?? not even close, and neither tate nor d-rob were even ranked in the top 125, they arent rated super high. robinson wasnt even ranked as a QB. so if they dont come in and start from day one (which .5% of QB recruits do) they are overrated??

d@mn, i need to learn to quote certain parts of whole posts.

I just dont have a lot of faith in threet. I think if we want a good offense we need a different type of qb than threet. I watched all the games, and just think we have a better chance with the likes of tate forcier...

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

d@mn, i need to learn to quote certain parts of whole posts.

I just dont have a lot of faith in threet. I think if we want a good offense we need a different type of qb than threet. I watched all the games, and just think we have a better chance with the likes of tate forcier...

I completely agree, this offense needs a mobile QB who can throw to reach its full potential. but if they dont come and start the first game that does not mean they are over rated at all, just nut doing what he does best speaking out his ass.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

I'll say Forcier takes the first real snap between the two Freshman. Not sure who will start for sure(out of all the QB's) next year.....

If Threet starts and plays most of the first game of the year and we lose, I'm gonna be pissed off. Trying to shove a square block through a circle is hard to do.

I wish them all the best, and may the best QB standout early so we can get this machine going.

[nc wolverine]

could be kinda fun to see a 2 qb system..... denard and tate.... even more fun announce early that threet is the starter.... then put in tate or drob... and watch defenses fall all over themselves since they didnt plan for it.
but i dont think we could keep that a secret

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

RR said that Robinson was the fastest player in the entire class, which says alot if you look at how many speed guys they got. I dont mean to bail on tate, but a Qb that runs a 4.38 is just freaking ridiculous, hope he pans out.

[nc wolverine]

RR said that Robinson was the fastest player in the entire class, which says alot if you look at how many speed guys they got. I dont mean to bail on tate, but a Qb that runs a 4.38 is just freaking ridiculous, hope he pans out.

have faith my friend
go blue
i dont care who we use; as long as we win

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

could be kinda fun to see a 2 qb system..... denard and tate.... even more fun announce early that threet is the starter.... then put in tate or drob... and watch defenses fall all over themselves since they didnt plan for it.
but i dont think we could keep that a secret

It would be pretty cool if we had both in at the same time. They could play monkey in the middle out there...LOL.

[Shane Falco]

Best case scenario imo is Tate starts from day 1 with Robinson getting some snaps. Next year we get Gardner and Robinson moves to corner with Tate & Gardner battling it out in the next 3 years.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

Best case scenario imo is Tate starts from day 1 with Robinson getting some snaps. Next year we get Gardner and Robinson moves to corner with Tate & Gardner battling it out in the next 3 years.

Robinsons videos are much more impressive to me than gardners, and I wouldnt assume he even comes to michigan, remember he "always liked the color red".

[Buzz]

I still think Threet will start at the beginning of the season. He's more familiar with the system. I think he'll be the top guy until they actually start playing games.

The thing about this situation is that now Forcier has someone to push him. Both of them wants to play now.....and the competition between Rob and Forcier will help them to get better, faster. One of them will be starting by week four or five. I'm leaning towards Forcier, cause he's already at Michigan.

Threet will probably be sending in signals by week six.

[Buzz]

This is another rebuilding year for Michigan. I really don't see any need to front load those frosh qbs. Tate will be starting by week five, but those clips of Rob looked like something.

If Rob is really a qb, he'll be the starter no later than 2010, just my opinion.

[Rockie]

Best case scenario imo is Tate starts from day 1 with Robinson getting some snaps. Next year we get Gardner and Robinson moves to corner with Tate & Gardner battling it out in the next 3 years.

The best case for Michigan would be for Threet to start game one, Forcier to push him and by game six, Tate starting, Threet a back up and you throw in DRob in there every now and than. Than get Gardner in the 2010 class and Redshirt him, that way there will be two years between Tate/Robinson and Gardner and by 2011, you will have Threet who will be a senior, Forcier will be a Jr and Gardner will be a Freshman and you have Denard Robinson who can play all over the Field.

[BlueBallers]

The more I read about D-Rob the more excited I get. All the publications keep talking about how he was the most important sign and how he is what the offense needs. I can't wait to see him and Forcier compete and I just hope RR plays to both their strengths and they both get to split the duties at QB. I think the future is bright and I think both QB's are going to be head and shoulders better than what we saw last year. If you look at all the talent at RB and WR, if the QB's play average, we could see some 40 spots on the scoreboard this year.

[blueisbetterthanred]

I think Tate's heart might have skipped a beat when he saw Robinson sign lol. He knows he has a legitimate threat on him now instead of threet, who is average. I think Tate wins out though by mid season.

I could really see Robinson turning into the next Woodson, "the best 2 way player in the game." He could be a beast on both sides of the ball...

[Revelli]

It would be pretty cool if we had both in at the same time. They could play monkey in the middle out there...LOL.

Actually... I'm counting on this happening!

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

Actually... I'm counting on this happening!

By doing that, they could bring our time of possession back to where it should be----or they could do this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PBvOxicz-0

(a little extreme though....LOL)

[mgobev]

I think if Forcier picks up the offense in spring ball the starting spot is his to lose. The only way Threet is going to start is if neither frosh can learn the system in time... and you would think they will have an easier time with it this year considering most of the team has a year under their belts. If Rodriguez wanted to start a prototypical pocket passer he would have made a bigger effort to keep Mallet.


Now to be totally unrealistic.. How sweet would it be if they put in a package with both Forcier and Robinson in the backfield in a sort of adaptation of the A-11 offense.
http://a11offense.com/

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

I think if Forcier picks up the offense in spring ball the starting spot is his to lose. The only way Threet is going to start is if neither frosh can learn the system in time... and you would think they will have an easier time with it this year considering most of the team has a year under their belts. If Rodriguez wanted to start a prototypical pocket passer he would have made a bigger effort to keep Mallet.


Now to be totally unrealistic.. How sweet would it be if they put in a package with both Forcier and Robinson in the backfield in a sort of adaptation of the A-11 offense.
http://a11offense.com/
After today, the light at the end of the tunnel is appearing much closer and brighter.

As for that offense you were referring to, I'd have to grab some popcorn for that. Also, that would be a great way for them to get some playing time....

[Blue In Ohio]

Michigan had an excellent day considering the large amount of Michigan bashing going on at other schools trying to steal our recruits. That's the reason for the high ammount of decommits this year. Michigan needs to have a sucessful season next year to put this kind of talk to bed otherwise it will hurt recruiting. I'm sure the coaching staff worked it's ass off for this class. If we had 8 to 10 wins we would have had alot easier time bringing in the talent. I sure hope next year is atleast 8 wins that way they can no longer tell our recruits that they won't win at Michigan because you can sure as hell bet that is what has gone on. There are alot of snake oil salesmen out there.

[tpilews]

I don't understand how any of you are saying Threet. It's just amazing. NC Wolverine is right. If you don't remember how awful Threet was last year, go back and watch the season again. It was dreadful. It's too bad the site got hacked, or you guys could go back and read your own words, bashing Threet. Listen, Threet showed a lot of guts, I like that. He's not a QB that is going to lead UM to victory with any consistency.

Think about this in RR's shoes for a minute.....

You sign two qbs that fit your system, but you start at qb that doesn't despite the fact that one of those qbs had 9 months to learn the offense, and the other had 3 months. What happens when UM loses that first game to WMU with Threet running the show??? People will be pissed, calling for RR's head on a platter right then and there. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO..... RR is going to win or lose with HIS QB's. I'm sorry, but Threet and Sheridan won't see the field ever again. Hell, I bet RR puts Nader Furrha in the game before either of them.

[BlueBallers]

I think if Forcier picks up the offense in spring ball the starting spot is his to lose. The only way Threet is going to start is if neither frosh can learn the system in time... and you would think they will have an easier time with it this year considering most of the team has a year under their belts. If Rodriguez wanted to start a prototypical pocket passer he would have made a bigger effort to keep Mallet.


Now to be totally unrealistic.. How sweet would it be if they put in a package with both Forcier and Robinson in the backfield in a sort of adaptation of the A-11 offense.
http://a11offense.com/

That would be fun, but it would be kind of a waste of signing all those lineman. Considering there are only 3 on the field

[NCBLUE]

I say we sink or swim with Tate/Robinson.

Nothing against Threet or Sheridan but I want no part of a repeat of last year's nightmare.

[Swoosh]

I agree

Tate or Robison, I have not heard from Robison, but I like what I am hearing from Tate.

[Sten Carlson]

I say we sink or swim with Tate/Robinson.

Nothing against Threet or Sheridan but I want no part of a repeat of last year's nightmare.

I have said this several times before -- I think Threet will actually become a very valuable guy on this team as a leader and as a mentor to the incoming QBs. He's a very very smart kid, and although I know he wants to compete for the job, I'd be willing to bet that he's under no delusions that he's going to have much of a shot. I hope that he looks at his role on the team and embraces it, and helps Tate and Robinson get up to speed as fast as possible. Sometimes your leaders aren't always on the field, or even starting.

I don't wish ill upon Steve, he showed us all what being a true Michigan Man is all about, but I'd be willing to bet that he'll be devoting more time to his studies this year, and perhaps thinking about becoming a coach or grad assistant when he's done. Again, I am not dogging on the kid, I just think that he's too smart to not see the handwriting on the wall. Hopefully, RR will embrace the kid, give him a role that requires a smart team players, and hold him up as what the program expects from everyone that wears the Maize and Blue!

All speculation and opinion here -- who knows, maybe he gets A LOT better in the off season and comes out gunning it -- I doubt it though!

[nc wolverine]

the more video clips and the more i read on robinson, i think he may take over the offense. Forcier i think got worried when drob signed. D rob is the exact type of athlete RRwanted to run qb. Dont get me wrong tate forcier fits that mold nicely. But we all know pat white was a run first pass second type of qb.

who do i want to run our offense....?
i lean toward tate. I like a passing offense and if u run too much in the big 10 you will end up injured on the side line... this isnt the big east

[Mich97c]

How about this - have a open competition and the player that does best gets the starting gig.

[BlueBallers]

If you look at WV when RR was there with Pat White, they only threw the ball 10-15 times, except when they were down big. I think part of that was do to the fact that they never had a big time WR. Reynaud was a nice player, but lets face it, he is not the caliber WR that Matthews, Stonum and the new guys are going to be.

If we had the WR's that WV had, I think D-Rob would get the nod over Tate. With all the weapons on the perimeter and Tate's accuracy, I think RR is going to want to throw the ball more than he did at WV, which favors Tate. If both are healthy and ready to play, im all in favor of playing both and whoever is playing the best, or whatever the situation dictates, thats who plays the most, game by game. However, if one of the 2 gets hurt, then you adapt to their strengths and run the offense towards the player who is healthy.

Just my 2 cents, RR has forgot more about football than I know.

[nc wolverine]

How about this - have a open competition and the player that does best gets the starting gig.

such a novel idea! why didnt i think of that?

[tpilews]

If you look at WV when RR was there with Pat White, they only threw the ball 10-15 times, except when they were down big. I think part of that was do to the fact that they never had a big time WR. Reynaud was a nice player, but lets face it, he is not the caliber WR that Matthews, Stonum and the new guys are going to be.

You're right BB. But not only that, also, Pat White wasn't a very good thrower. If you look at the percentage of pass plays, they increased every year Pat was there. RR definitely wants to run a balanced attack. But, if he can get away with running 70% of the time, he will. This is what, I think, RR was eluding to when he was talking about conforming to the talent he has. If you've got a qb that can throw the ball, you're going to throw it more while still including the basics of his read-option.

[amazinblue]

Though I like to see a "balanced" offense, I think we have to examine and evaluate what exactly we can do on the field. I believe any offense scheme must capitalize and utilize the talent we have at the skill positions. And, that will be a balance of running, passing, and option.

With this recruiting class - we're getter deeper and faster at needed skill positions. My personal preference is for a "pass first" spread, with a QB that is agile enough to either buy time or pick up a few yards with his feet. And, with an O line that's maturing and our depth at RB, I don't think we need to have a QB picking up 100 yards a game. If the QB can "net" 30 yards a game on the ground, and use his feet to avoid a sack or buy time with his feet to let something downfield develop, and then hit the receiver - well, I'd be thrilled.

I have no idea who will be under center against WMU. I think that both Threet and Sheridan gave it their all last season, and that the depth / talent at QB has taken a step up this year with the addition of Forcier and Robinson. Things are getting better - and I believe the squad taking the field this fall will surprise a lot of people.

[BlueBallers]

You're right BB. But not only that, also, Pat White wasn't a very good thrower. If you look at the percentage of pass plays, they increased every year Pat was there. RR definitely wants to run a balanced attack. But, if he can get away with running 70% of the time, he will. This is what, I think, RR was eluding to when he was talking about conforming to the talent he has. If you've got a qb that can throw the ball, you're going to throw it more while still including the basics of his read-option.

Exactly, as Threet proved last year with that long run against Wisc(not sure, the only long one he had) and some others. You don't need to be a burner to keep the ball on the read/opt. Because when you pull it and keep it, thats means no one is there.

Pat White had a ton of rushing yards on broken down pass plays, which is strictly a luxory and bonus.

[tpilews]

I realize this is a highlight reel, but A LOT of the plays in the clip are VERY SIMILAR, if not the same plays that RR uses. A lot of quick passing, read option.

If you look at the quick passing, Tate is very consistent with hitting the receiver in stride. Tate also delivers the ball incredibly fast. He looks very good on the read option plays. My favorite in this clip is the "statue of liberty" at the 3:46 mark. Oh yeah, another thing, Tate has great touch on his passes when he is on the run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti1H3d6YKxA

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

Threet is obviously not the answer, however we know nothing about how good Tate and Drob will actually be in college. I dont see how you can be so positive threet will never see the field again. The entire team sucked last year not just threet, if he improves greatly like most second year starters do, he may hold them off for a few games.

[tpilews]

Threet is obviously not the answer, however we know nothing about how good Tate and Drob will actually be in college. I dont see how you can be so positive threet will never see the field again. The entire team sucked last year not just threet, if he improves greatly like most second year starters do, he may hold them off for a few games.

Easy, Tate and Denard are RR's recruits. He's going to win/lose with them.

As I said earlier, can you imagine how bad the fans will get if RR loses with Threet???

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

Easy, Tate and Denard are RR's recruits. He's going to win/lose with them.

As I said earlier, can you imagine how bad the fans will get if RR loses with Threet???

IF is key here, obviously if threet doesnt improve he wont play. but what if he does? what if tate and DR are like 99% of true freshman QB's and just not ready for it? They have talent and are perfect for this offense but I dont think RR with play them just to play them.

[Buzz]

Threet already knows the offense and he has a year of experience, that's enough to get him the starting spot at qb.....even though he's not that good.

Michigan has problem spots all over the field, the OL, the DL, the safeties, the LBs, the receivers, and the special team returners. It's going to take the entire season to get it right.

The frosh qbs will play, but it's not like they're the missing link or something. This is a rebuilding year for the program.

[1OSUNUT]

If the two guys that RR brought in are in fact the QB's of the future - then they should get most of the work in the off season. Ohio State did the opposite and I really think it hurt the team and TP during the season. It is almost impossible to learn a position during the season, when in between games your getting ready for the next opponant. When you are getting a game plan together and running things against the scout team - you cannot stop and teach a player the basics. If you do you will be like Indiana or Minnesota.

To be an elite team you need your elite players on the field. Ohio State won games on defense and superior talent. TP is a superior talent and we went as far as his legs would takes us. I do however think that if Tressel thought TP was going to be the man after week two - then he should of got more work in the off season. Why would you get Threet ready for the opener, if he is not going to be the long term starter ? To get a early win (maybe) over a weak team in week one. I don't care how special a kid was in high school or how he looks in practice - the game is a different animal. I think Michigan should let Robinson and Tate battle in the off season and then pick one - and start him. Let the kid learn against the weak teams at home before the tough Big Ten schedule starts up. I think your wasting a year if you do not start one of them. You can say what you want (right or wrong) about how Tressel handled TP. But the one positive is that we have a QB coming back with a full season of experience. Starting one of your new kids will pay off big in RR's third season.

[Run The Ball]

ok... im thrilled. i get to start the debate on who will be michigans starting qb.
honestly i ruled out threet...
forcier vs robinson.
forcier seems to be the best overall (passing with good legs)
robinson seems to be the best athlete.
tate got in early and has already started training. so he gets my vote
but i am not counting out robinson. his highlight videos are impressive

so... what do you all think?


I think Ryan Mallett will have us ready to win the NC and will contend for the HT now that it's his Junior year and we will....er, uh, sorry I forgot we are in the MAC now and not the Big Ten. Oh well, I'm just pumped we can redeem ourselves playing against multiple MAC teams again this year; they should be thrillers, IMO. If we keep things close in that conference, soon MAC teams will want to schedule us for their homecoming games, too!

2009 Michigan Football - Motor City Bowl or bust, Baby!!!!

[jinfant3]

Hahaha, you're funny... a complete douche bag, but a funny one

[Buzz]

One of the reasons why TP said he chose OSU is that he wanted go to a school where he could work himself into the playing mix.

Magee said repeatedly last season during spring and fall training that he couldn't gauge how well the qbs were learning the system simply because they never played in a real game.

[tpilews]

If the two guys that RR brought in are in fact the QB's of the future - then they should get most of the work in the off season. Ohio State did the opposite and I really think it hurt the team and TP during the season. It is almost impossible to learn a position during the season, when in between games your getting ready for the next opponant. When you are getting a game plan together and running things against the scout team - you cannot stop and teach a player the basics. If you do you will be like Indiana or Minnesota.

To be an elite team you need your elite players on the field. Ohio State won games on defense and superior talent. TP is a superior talent and we went as far as his legs would takes us. I do however think that if Tressel thought TP was going to be the man after week two - then he should of got more work in the off season. Wht would you get Threet ready for the opener, if he is not going to be the long term starter ? To get a early win (maybe) over a weak team in week one. I don't care how special a kid was in high school or how he looks in practice - the game is a different animal. I think Michigan should let Robinson and Tate battle in the off season and then pick one - and start him. Let the kid learn against the weak teams at home before the tough Big Ten schedule starts up. I think your wating a year if you do not start one of them. You can say what you want (right or wrong) about how Tressel handled TP. But the one positive is that we have a QB coming back with a full season of experience. Starting one on your new kids will pay off big in RR's third season.

I agree....

[tpilews]

Threet already knows the offense and he has a year of experience, that's enough to get him the starting spot at qb.....even though he's not that good.

Yeah, he knows soooo much of the offense that we kept running the same 5 plays all year long.

[tpilews]

Threet already knows the offense and he has a year of experience, that's enough to get him the starting spot at qb.....even though he's not that good.

And Denard and Tate have been running pro-sets in high school?

No, they've been running variations of the same spread. If you look at some of each player's highlights, you will see read/options, quick passing, and more. Both of these kids have been running this offense for at least 4 years in hs, and who knows how long before that. The only "experience" Threet has over denard/tate is the game speed, and both Tate and Denard are quicker/faster than Threet, so they should make the adjustment just fine.

[StevieBrownforHeisman]

WMU is going to be a huge game this season. If we win that game we are going into the big10 season with a WINNING RECORD! I guess I wouldn't be suprised if denard got lots of early season snaps just so we can establish the triple option/zone read, particularly vs WMU. This offense needs stability, and a solid ground game is easier to build on than a passing attack; especially if you consider where we had our success in 2008.

[Buzz]

It was a whole team effort that led to the results of last season. I watched the season so I know.

Threet ran a spread offense in Highschool as well, but that didn't help him to become accustomed to playing for Michigan.

Comparing Highschool football to College football is like comparing apples and oranges. and actually the play calling had little to with Threet, that's on RichRod, he called those same five plays all game long.

When I say experience is key, not only am I talking working knowledge of a given offense, and understanding how an opposing denfense intends on attacking you, but I'm also talking about understanding your teammates and what their strengths in certain situations are. So I'm also adding the leadership factor.

The offense needs an onfield leader, neither of those frosh qbs will have that ability when the season starts.


If you take a look, at least 90% of freshmen that start for a school at qb, struggles, because they don't know what they're doing.....just the nature of the beast, sorry.

[pryorthrowslikeagirl]

No one is saying RR wants Threet to start, or that RR is going to have Threet lead the offense like he is the opening day starter, I dont know where that idea came from. I think all everyone is being is realistic, true freshman rarely start from day one, if threet gives them a better chance to win the first game threet will start plain and simple. IF tate or Drob give him them best chance then they start.

[Swoosh]

No one is saying RR wants Threet to start, or that RR is going to have Threet lead the offense like he is the opening day starter, I dont know where that idea came from. I think all everyone is being is realistic, true freshman rarely start from day one, if threet gives them a better chance to win the first game threet will start plain and simple. IF tate or Drob give him them best chance then they start.

I agree, but most true freshmen are not going against Threet and Nick:p

Tate or Robinson will get the balk of snaps this year:)

[tpilews]

No one is saying RR wants Threet to start, or that RR is going to have Threet lead the offense like he is the opening day starter, I dont know where that idea came from. I think all everyone is being is realistic, true freshman rarely start from day one, if threet gives them a better chance to win the first game threet will start plain and simple. IF tate or Drob give him them best chance then they start.

I agree with your last sentence.


rue freshman rarely start from day one,

This isn't a typical situation that UM has going on.

[tpilews]

It was a whole team effort that led to the results of last season. I watched the season so I know.

Absolutely. Well, as long as you watched the season, I'll take your word as gospel. (sarcasm on)



Threet ran a spread offense in Highschool as well, but that didn't help him to become accustomed to playing for Michigan.

Completely different type of spread offense. Threet is a pocket passer, PERIOD... or three.


and actually the play calling had little to with Threet, that's on RichRod, he called those same five plays all game long.

Yeah, because RR is going to call a play that Threet doesn't know how to run :rolleyes:



The offense needs an onfield leader, neither of those frosh qbs will have that ability when the season starts.

Why does the leader have to be a qb. Minor seems to be a natural leader. Also, why can't one of the freshmen lead by example. If they execute, the guys on the team are gonna look to them to make plays.


If you take a look, at least 90% of freshmen that start for a school at qb, struggles, because they don't know what they're doing.....just the nature of the beast, sorry.

Okay, and as I've been saying, Tate is probably one of the most ready freshmen qbs in the entire class. He's been groomed as a qb his entire life. Also, I never said that Tate or Denard wouldn't struggle, not sure where you got that from. This thread is about our opinion of who we think will start, not succeed right away. Hell, even if that was what this thread was about, I'd still say Tate/Denard gives UM the best chance to win against WMU just based on skill set and pure athletic ability. Not to mention that Tate has 9 months to become familiar with the offense.

[tpilews]

It was a whole team effort that led to the results of last season.

Despite the terrible play elsewhere, better qb play would have gotten UM to a bowl game.

[W0lv3r1n3]

I think Ryan Mallett will have us ready to win the NC and will contend for the HT now that it's his Junior year and we will....er, uh, sorry I forgot we are in the MAC now and not the Big Ten. Oh well, I'm just pumped we can redeem ourselves playing against multiple MAC teams again this year; they should be thrillers, IMO. If we keep things close in that conference, soon MAC teams will want to schedule us for their homecoming games, too!

2009 Michigan Football - Motor City Bowl or bust, Baby!!!!

EVERYONE go to his post (page 5) and click that green/grey/red dot to lower his reputation. I don't want this douche actively posting again.

On Topic: The QB situation really depends on whether or not Threet can improve his short passing game. It was horrendous last year, and if it doesn't show vast improvement Forcier will definitely start. I'm just very hesitant to give the nod to a freshman, when Threet's been in place for much longer. You have to remember that Threet was a freshman with the system last year, and I don't feel like going through the freshman growing pains again (then again, maybe it was just Threet being Threet). Threet was also injured a good part of last year if I'm not mistaken.

We can argue about this forever, but none of us know anything and it's way to early to have a clue. One of the QB's isn't even in Ann Arbor yet, and none of them are practicing.

[bleed maize & blue]

Well I am for one glad that Michigan has finally gone away fromhaving a statue for a qb to a mobile guy that can keep a play alive with his feet and keep the defense honest. The years of having Navarre and Henne that thought in thier minds they had the ability to scramble to having a nimble guy back behind center is going to be exciting to say the least. Look at how Big Ben kept plays alive for Pittsburg in the Super Bowl with his feet is the best example and how Steve Young made a living with his ability to improvise made him a hall of famer.

[tpilews]

EVERYONE go to his post (page 5) and click that green/grey/red dot to lower his reputation. I don't want this douche actively posting again.

On Topic: The QB situation really depends on whether or not Threet can improve his short passing game. It was horrendous last year, and if it doesn't show vast improvement Forcier will definitely start. I'm just very hesitant to give the nod to a freshman, when Threet's been in place for much longer. You have to remember that Threet was a freshman with the system last year, and I don't feel like going through the freshman growing pains again (then again, maybe it was just Threet being Threet). Threet was also injured a good part of last year if I'm not mistaken.

We can argue about this forever, but none of us know anything and it's way to early to have a clue. One of the QB's isn't even in Ann Arbor yet, and none of them are practicing.


Sure he was injured for part of the season, but not the part where he got beat out by Sheridan. And certainly not at the beginning of the season. I could understand the argument for Threet had he been an average qb while he was healthy. He was awful.

My thinking about the qb situation is this: Would you rather have a freshman who fits the system, shows great athletic ability, an ability to make plays, has good arm strength, and is accurate, or would you rather have a redshirt sophomore who doesn't fit the system, who is an average runner, and a below average thrower?

This is all about building a winner for the future. Threet is not the future. You need to get Tate/Denard as much experience as you can. They're not gonna get it on the bench.

[Buzz]

TPI, I was going to quote your post, but it's way too choppy and doesn't make any real points.

You want to breakdown my post and add objections to just about every sentence? I think my posts explains the situation perfectly, (freshmen qbs don't perform well).....yours is a rambling wreck.

Just by reading your objections, it doesn't really seem like you even watch football. Sure you have the television on the correct channel, and you're sitting there, but it's more like the tv's watching you.

You think last season's results are all on Threet, and the new qbs are the missing link for the program, well let me tell you this, junior......you're freaking dreaming, wake up.

Last thing, we've had this same subject on this board several times over. If it means that much to you......put up a couple grand to support your claim, and I'll match it.

If not, then TPI you need to shut the hell up.

[Buzz]

Despite the terrible play elsewhere, better qb play would have gotten UM to a bowl game.

If some of the players had of stayed that left the program, UM would have been in a bowl game. Better play calling would have gotten us in a bowl game

You can say if, and, or but all day if you like making excuses for youself.

There is no magic lineup, or any special potion, or a secret weapon that's going to get the program through this rebuilding phase.

You think that if Michigan has a new qb then they might beat WMU, which will be a big game this year.

Don't fool youself by thinking Michigan has a near complete team, Michigan is rebuilding, and rebuilding is tough.... there junior.

We'll see what happens when the season starts.

[W0lv3r1n3]

My thinking about the qb situation is this: Would you rather have a freshman who fits the system, shows great athletic ability, an ability to make plays, has good arm strength, and is accurate, or would you rather have a redshirt sophomore who doesn't fit the system, who is an average runner, and a below average thrower?

This paragraph illustrates my feelings perfectly... we don't know anything yet. You've already crowned Tate Forcier the king of Michigan football and he hasn't even attended a practice. We simply don't know how these freshman will perform in college. Recruiting is a crapshoot, and Forcier does have a few question marks just like every other one of our recruits.

For one, many have questioned the level of competition he plays against. People also often cite his amazing 77% completion percentage as a Junior. The thing is, his Senior stats were much worse.

I'm not saying Tate won't be great, I hope he is the next Tom Brady. In fact, I think it's extremely likely that Tate will start the majority of next season. However, it's impossible to tell what's going to happen at this point.


This is all about building a winner for the future. Threet is not the future. You need to get Tate/Denard as much experience as you can. They're not gonna get it on the bench.
Why can't Threet be the future? It may not be likely, but all I want is the best quarterback starting. The one who gives us the best chance to win games. Threet may not be Rodriguez's perfect quarterback, but if he can do those things he should start. He's only a Sophomore, most players don't even get the opportunity to play until their Junior year. Saying he can't be the future doesn't make much sense.

[tpilews]

TPI, I was going to quote your post, but it's way too choppy and doesn't make any real points.

You want to breakdown my post and add objections to just about every sentence? I think my posts explains the situation perfectly, (freshmen qbs don't perform well).....yours is a rambling wreck.

Just by reading your objections, it doesn't really seem like you even watch football. Sure you have the television on the correct channel, and you're sitting there, but it's more like the tv's watching you.

You think last season's results are all on Threet, and the new qbs are the missing link for the program, well let me tell you this, junior......you're freaking dreaming, wake up.

Last thing, we've had this same subject on this board several times over. If it means that much to you......put up a couple grand to support your claim, and I'll match it.

If not, then TPI you need to shut the hell up.

Haha, that's great. My opinion has no merit because I'm not willing to put a couple grand on it. Haha.

Oh, and I'm not a junior. I don't have my father's name.


You think last season's results are all on Threet, and the new qbs are the missing link for the program, well let me tell you this, junior......you're freaking dreaming, wake up.

If you go back to what I wrote, I said "absolutely" concerning last year's problems being a team problem and not a qb only problem.

My point, which you clearly missed, was that qb play, had it been better, UM would have won a few extra games. The Toledo game was a glaring example of that. I know, I was at the game. :rolleyes:

I never said that qb play was the only reason UM loss 9 games. Sure, fumbles, terrible defense, lack of talent/experience on offense.

"Freshmen qb's don't perform well"... perhaps we should give them a chance. UM really doesn't have much to lose.

I don't see what is wrong with saying that my opinion is that Tate will start next year from day 1. Plenty others share the same opinion. I have personal experience with going through a coaching change. Not in football, but another sport. It's never easy. And the new coach is never judged by the administration on players he didn't recruit. At UM, RR needs to start winning. He will do this with his players.

The QB position is biggest of need, which is why there hasn't been another thread on this site concerning any other commits we signed and who will play and who will redshirt. So while it may seem all I'm concerned with is the qb, that just happens to be the topic of the thread.

Here, let me throw one back at ya.... Junior.

[tpilews]

Why can't Threet be the future?

You know what, you're right, Threet can be the future. If I'm wrong about Threet, I will be the first to apologize and say I was wrong. Threet, imo, has a long way to go before he would be considered the future of the program.

[goblue]

If I had to guess, RR will go with Forcier/Robinson to start the season. If you look at last year, RR put true freshman McGuffie in over Minor and Brown to start the season. He also put the other freshman rb's in over the veterans.

This tells me that RR's pattern is to play guys who he thinks will better fit in his system over experience. Minor ended up playing more and was the better rb, but I can't see that happening with Threet. I'm sure he'll use both Forcier/Robinson in the first few games as long as Robinson is ready. If Forcier does end up being the starter, I'd be expecting RR to use Robinson the way Carr used Antonio Bass and Meyer used Tebow his freshman year.

The more important question for a coach is which player will give you a better chance to win. RR is not wavering one bit with the spread, and Threet does not fit in this system.

[NCBLUE]

No doubt Michigan will struggle with Freshman QB's as any school would. However I would rather sink/swim with our two incoming guys because of their upside potential. We had arguably the worst QB play in the nation last season beacuse the QB's were freshmen, not suited for the offense and RR did not adjust well to what we had.

Some on this site have thought Michigan will be 10-2 or 9-3 next season which I personally think is highly unlikely but I do think we should have improvement from last year.

[Bossgobbler23]

No doubt Michigan will struggle with Freshman QB's as any school would. However I would rather sink/swim with our two incoming guys because of their upside potential. We had arguably the worst QB play in the nation last season beacuse the QB's were freshmen, not suited for the offense and RR did not adjust well to what we had.

Some on this site have thought Michigan will be 10-2 or 9-3 next season which I personally think is highly unlikely but I do think we should have improvement from last year.

I think you are realistically on the money. I think we will be on the plus side of wins and see a bowl game. I think 8 wins are possible if things go better than planned. 7 wins more likely.

[GoDeepHammer]

I just want to see the four of them compete and see who comes out on top. The new freshman are going to push for playing time, from what I have seen and heard. I believe the rest of our offense is going to be better this year too, so that can do nothing but help whomever is at QB.

[tpilews]

I just want to see the four of them compete and see who comes out on top. The new freshman are going to push for playing time, from what I have seen and heard. I believe the rest of our offense is going to be better this year too, so that can do nothing but help whomever is at QB.

I agree, the rest of the offense will be much improved. The RBs showed some major upside at the end of the year. Minor and Brown should be dominate this year. The offensive line really seemed to gel. It will only get better this year with the improved depth. UM's got great receivers, both inside and outside. This is why most think that with much better qb play, UM is a big ten contender in 2009. QB wasn't the only problem last year, but most of those problems on offense from last year seem to be somewhat taken care of. At least they weren't as big of a problem at the end of the year as they were at the beginning.

We've seen how good and explosive this offense can be with good qb play. Sheridan against Minnesota was amazing. And Sheridan didn't have to be great for the offense to thrive. He was able to hit some downfield passes to help extend the defense. Most importantly, he hit his receivers in stride on the quick outs. He was also able to pick up some first downs with his feet to keep drives alive. If Tate/Denard can replicate what Sheridan did in that game with any consistency, UM can have a great year.

[1OSUNUT]

tpilews:

I can appriciate how much you love your Wolverines - your supposed to. In fact I would think less of you if you didn't. But the last time Michigan took the field they were beaten 42-7. Some of the things you said about he offensive line geling and the running backs dominating - I must have missed it. Michigan also has HUGE problems on defense. Should Michigan be better then last year - I sure hope so. But a Big Ten contender ? No Way. You have two running backs that are fairly good. The offensive line is still a concern and the WR's are still a unknown. The straw that stirs the drink is the QB and that is the biggest question mark of all - and that is only the offense.

The defense is a whole other problem. They cannot tackle or cover anybody. I know you excited because RR had a pretty good class this year - but he needs to do that for a few years before Michigan has the depth and experience to compete for a league championship. Just like you guys could not believe your eyes last year, the same thing will happen this year. You guys are going to suffer at times with a freshman QB. There will be weeks when you won't score an offensive TD and there will be throws that leave you shaking your head - it's all part of rebuilding. If RR is around long enough to have 3 or 4 classes Michigan will be a tough opponant again. But right now Michigan still has to many holes filled by young guys and the teams in the Big Ten that they are chasing are still pretty well stacked.

[blueisbetterthanred]

You may think the OL is a concern, but with 6 redshirts coming on, I'm pretty confident with what they learned last year.

Plus Washington, Schofield and Lewan all are 4 star OL we recruited, with only Lewan being under 300 lbs.

I'm pretty confident in the O line being put together for this year.

[Buzz]

Here, let me throw one back at ya.... Junior.

That’s a good one.

Everybody’s opinion means something, that’s the essence of this board. What I’m saying is that if posts are being made in an effort to being right or wrong, then I suggest you support that claim with some dinero.

And it’s not necessary for you to have your father’s name….I called you junior because you’re response to my previous post appeared IMO elementary…..hence the parallel, junior.

That comparison you made about High school football and College was straight up laughable. You’re taking the words at face value, and not really putting the entire picture together. “Perhaps we should give them a chance. UM really doesn't have much to lose.” If you would have read one of my other posts, where I said Threet will probably be sending in signals by week six, you would have known where stand concerning the qb competition.

Here you are talking about Tate or Rob should be ready in September through playing in practice, not a real game, practice. Don’t you know that in preseason practice, all the coaches can gauge is a player’s physical ability, and his ability to grasp the overall aspect of a given scheme? Can’t teach them the complex nuances of the offense, because it’s unknown how they’ll respond or react in particular situations, if that happens, RichRod will end up retraining, wasting valuable time during the week. Can’t pull out the scalpel in spring and fall practice. The new guys will come into practice writing the Boolean Language, while the guys already on the team will be developing the GUI. The freshmen will have to make up the difference. Hell, Tate hasn’t even played one down in practice yet, and you’re giving him the slot.

This is the experience I’m talking about. The qb is the key to the offense, he’s gotta lead. I’m mainly referring to leading as a producer on the field (so it’s cool, Minor can lead too, pumpkin). He’s gotta get them lined up, make adjustments, slide protection, identify hot routes, check downs, cheaters, etc. Tate, and if Rob is really a qb, won’t start learning these things until after the season starts.

Threet has a place on this team; I think he’ll be point man for the program. The others will be phased in.

This is the way I look at the qb situation for Michigan. When you made your response, frankly it appeared to me TPI, that you were not even on my level, but you responded any way. That’s why I called you junior.

I was at the Utah game….the program will need better play across the board, not just qb play in order to win in 2009. It can be done, and it will be done but it’s a process.

Actually, the title of this thread is Tate or Rob. To answer the question, I think Tate has the edge early on but if Rob is really a qb, he’ll be the starter going into the 2010 season.

[tpilews]

tpilews:

I can appriciate how much you love your Wolverines - your supposed to. In fact I would think less of you if you didn't. But the last time Michigan took the field they were beaten 42-7. Some of the things you said about he offensive line geling and the running backs dominating - I must have missed it. Michigan also has HUGE problems on defense. Should Michigan be better then last year - I sure hope so. But a Big Ten contender ? No Way. You have two running backs that are fairly good. The offensive line is still a concern and the WR's are still a unknown. The straw that stirs the drink is the QB and that is the biggest question mark of all - and that is only the offense.

The defense is a whole other problem. They cannot tackle or cover anybody. I know you excited because RR had a pretty good class this year - but he needs to do that for a few years before Michigan has the depth and experience to compete for a league championship. Just like you guys could not believe your eyes last year, the same thing will happen this year. You guys are going to suffer at times with a freshman QB. There will be weeks when you won't score an offensive TD and there will be throws that leave you shaking your head - it's all part of rebuilding. If RR is around long enough to have 3 or 4 classes Michigan will be a tough opponant again. But right now Michigan still has to many holes filled by young guys and the teams in the Big Ten that they are chasing are still pretty well stacked.

Minor could very well lead the big ten in rushing. He played with all kinds of injuries last year. This is the first time he has been healthy since his freshman year, according to him.

The offensive line was awful at the beginning of the year. Take a look at the Wisconsin game. They looked good against PSU, one of the stronger defenses in the county. Basically from PSU on, the offensive line was no longer the weak link on the team.

I really think the big 10 lost a ton of talent this past year. Lots of running backs. Some of those teams that were competing for the big10 title, are now rebuilding. While I'll admit UM could very well be in the bottom 2/3rds of the big 10 in '09, you must also admit anything can happen.

[tpilews]

That’s a good one.

Everybody’s opinion means something, that’s the essence of this board. What I’m saying is that if posts are being made in an effort to being right or wrong, then I suggest you support that claim with some dinero.


I know what you are saying Buzz, and I don't completely disagree with you. My concern was that people are going to flip out if Threet gets the majority of snaps in game one, and UM loses. RR knows this. This is just another reason why I think Tate will start and see the majority of snaps, with Denard getting some reps. RR is going to win or lose with his guys.

While the hs game and college game are different, a lot of the schemes are the same. Denard and Tate have both run the zone read, so they are familiar with what to look for. Threet never ran it before last year, and it was evident because he never learned it. He was constantly making bad reads. I really hope Threet improves. I think he could be a good qb. It sure would make the transition easier.

[1OSUNUT]

The thing Minor has to worry about is that teams will be loading the box to stop the run because they want Michigan to pass the ball. Untill Michigan proves they can throw that is what they will expect every week. Michigan is not alone in this either. The Buckeyes will be faced with the same thing next year. Pryor had better learn to throw or running is going to be tough for him and Herron. I just did not see anything from Michigan during the season or the final game in Columbus that makes me think they will be a contender at all. If I'm wrong I will admit it but I think I'm right on this one. I think Michigan will consider 7 wins a huge sucess in 09.

[amazinblue]

... But the last time Michigan took the field they were beaten 42-7..

Nut,

What was the halftime score in that last game? I believe that Michigan was down 14-7. And, I'm just wondering if you were at all worried about the game at that time, or if you were "absolutely sure" that OSU would roll in the second half.

Michigan had a couple of major problems last season - turnovers was one, and playing four quarters of solid ball in a game was the other.

With another year under their belt - I'm pretty sure we'll make significant progress in those areas. And, I certainly hope that you and your Buckeyes are already chalking up a win against Michigan in Ann Arbor on November 21st.

[BBA1994]

The thing Minor has to worry about is that teams will be loading the box to stop the run because they want Michigan to pass the ball. Untill Michigan proves they can throw that is what they will expect every week. Michigan is not alone in this either. The Buckeyes will be faced with the same thing next year. Pryor had better learn to throw or running is going to be tough for him and Herron. I just did not see anything from Michigan during the season or the final game in Columbus that makes me think they will be a contender at all. If I'm wrong I will admit it but I think I'm right on this one. I think Michigan will consider 7 wins a huge sucess in 09.

Yeah but you also think tressy's wanker in your mouth is a success.

[tpilews]

I won't consider 7 wins a HUGE success. I think 7 is the bar. Good season if 7. Not good if 6. Great season 8-9. Amazing 10-12. But, again, as a fan, I think 7 is realistic given UM's schedule.

As far as loading the box, they definitely will be. Hopefully, Tate/Denard or Threet will be able to pass good enough to hurt teams when they do.

[The Michigan Man]

Still not understanding the Threet bashing. A freshman QB with 1 returning starter running a new offense is supposed to play like Joe Montana? Hell, TP was the next coming of Jesus, had a loaded offense of experienced seniors, and was shut out of the end zone for 4 games.

Temper your analysis and expectations with reality. Threet will be a lot better this year, and the starting job is his to lose, IMO.

[RealSchool]

Still not understanding the Threet bashing. A freshman QB with 1 returning starter running a new offense is supposed to play like Joe Montana? Hell, TP was the next coming of Jesus, had a loaded offense of experienced seniors, and was shut out of the end zone for 4 games.

Temper your analysis and expectations with reality. Threet will be a lot better this year, and the starting job is his to lose, IMO.

....and a hard worker, good attitude, etc...

[tpilews]

Temper your analysis and expectations with reality. Threet will be a lot better this year, and the starting job is his to lose, IMO.

Well, yeah, it's his to lose. I just happen to think he's going to lose it before the first game. What's so irrational about my opinion?

[Sten Carlson]

Well, yeah, it's his to lose. I just happen to think he's going to lose it before the first game. What's so irrational about my opinion?

I agree with TPI!

I don't think anyone but Threet will be considered the starting QB from the first day of practice, as he is the returning starter. But, I think both Tate, DRob and even Sheridan are going to get equal exposure. All that being said, I think if Tate's arm is as good as it could be, I think he'll get the nod for the first game -- I just think that having NO down field threat made it impossible to maneuver last season, so he'll want the arm in there. This is all based on the fact that I believe Tate will learn the necessary reads and makes RR confident in his ability. I think that is actually going to be the easy part for him. I think DRob will be in on the scheme as well, and if he can throw even a little bit, I think we're going to see both guys play a lot -- even sometimes on the same plays.

The only thing that I think Threet has going for him is the experience, and maybe that intangible will be enough to get him the job, but if so, let's hope that he can beat the hell out of Western and Delaware St. so that Tate and DRob get chance to play. I don't think that is going to matter too much to RR though as he's already shown a vision for the bigger picture, and a willingness to sacrifice today for it.

Tate or DRob, probably Tate from jump street!

[The Michigan Man]

Well, yeah, it's his to lose. I just happen to think he's going to lose it before the first game. What's so irrational about my opinion?

Are you telling me that Threet was in an offense that he could excel in last year? That Threet peaked last year as a 19 yr old, and will show no improvement? Is it rational to write off a young QB because he was in a green offense that no one had any experience in, from the O-line to the WRs?

Another off-season with the playbook and his offense are going to make it hard for a true freshman to come in and outperform Threet. Forcier hits the ground running by enrolling early, but the others have a slim chance, at least on opening day. But if Threet does struggle early, it could get interesting.

[Blue In Ohio]

I agree Threets got a shot

[tpilews]

Are you telling me that Threet was in an offense that he could excel in last year?

I've never said anything like that. I think it's pretty common knowledge that Threet didn't fit the offense. Threet may be the best option for next year. If he improves his mechanics and throwing accuracy. If he can grasp the offense better than he did last year. There are a lot of "ifs" and a lot of work that Threet needs to do to improve. He seems like a hard worker. I hope he turns it around as it's only going to help the team.

[Bossgobbler23]

I've never said anything like that. I think it's pretty common knowledge that Threet didn't fit the offense. Threet may be the best option for next year. If he improves his mechanics and throwing accuracy. If he can grasp the offense better than he did last year. There are a lot of "ifs" and a lot of work that Threet needs to do to improve. He seems like a hard worker. I hope he turns it around as it's only going to help the team.

I agree with what TP said above. I also think no QB could have excelled with the inexperience of the whole offense last year, especially with such a young line. No doubt Threet will be better than he was last year but he still needs to prove that he can throw downfield. I don't think he is a dual threat at all. Threet may indeed start at the beginning of the season, but I think he will not end the season as the U-M QB. I do believe Tate will be the man in the not so distant future if he is not the man from the get go. He too will be inexperienced but he has had private personal training during his HS career and comes in more prepared and confident than the average freshman. From what he says, he is catching onto the system very easily so far.

[bigboyBlue]

Dunno about Robinson since he isn't on campus yet, but initial reports on Forcier have been encouraging from the players. We all knew he was accurate, but what is looking good is his arm strength and the zip he puts on the ball. Several catchers have said he has sent them reeling backwards when he throws the ball, others have said that he has hit them in the head a few times, because the ball gets there (on target) before they have a chance to turn around. He better work on that :D, but I think it sounds better already.

[tpilews]

Wow, just saw a video of Denard. This kid can flat out haul ass.


4x100 4th leg in Red.
the kid he tracked down from about 6 yards behind happens to be a year older than Denard and also happens to be none other than the 2008 Rivals #1 Rated CB (#5 player overall) Patrick Johnson. Yes, the PJ that ran multiple 4.3X 40s at the Miami Nike Camp and the person Rivals.com voted as the second fastest player in the entire nation in 2008.

http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_video/260/14405-b-4x100-final-01

[MoellerLover69(LloydCarr)]

Who cares, as long as Threet and Sherridan dont ever see the field again.


I agree 100%. I wonder if all of you who think Threet is even close to acceptable at Michigan watched any of the games or just became Michigan fans last season and are totally unaware of the tradition we have? I like the incomplete screen pass offense as much as the next guy, but c'mon let's give somebody a chance who could do better than me blindfolded. I'll also say it again that in measuring the suckitude of Threet and Sheridan that Sheridan played the best game of any qb we had last year against Minnesota.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

"PUT IN SHERIDAN, PUT THREET BACK IN, NO WAIT....PUT IN SHERIDAN....PUT FEAGIN IN..."

The offensive line situation put a lot of pressure on our QB last year. But when a Freshman QB can't run and/or throw----that's even worse.

Great QB's can be made from a good o-line(or at least a better one) and by good recievers that can catch the ball-----if it's in their vicinity. Good QB's(and future QB's) convert when they have time and a man or two open--no QB is bum-rushed and running out of the pocket every play. Freshman or not, you have to convert the easy plays. It shows potential, and in some cases it can be hidden.....or just absent.

Freshman make mistakes. Seniors make fewer mistakes---in general. We will find out this coming season who has learned from their mistakes and has grown to fit into this system. We will see who will belong, and who doesn't----and maybe some only temporarily have a place....in the near future.

This transition has to be a harsh(and maybe not so harsh) reality for some. Growing pains. The ones with potential always seem to have a place. That depends a lot on exactly WHO(RR....and others) is doing the judging----with the factor of where "we" are headed.

Anyway....GO BLUE. No matter what happens.

[MAIZEandBLUEsuedeshoes]

I'll also say it again that in measuring the suckitude of Threet and Sheridan that Sheridan played the best game of any qb we had last year against Minnesota.
That was a damn good game. I thought everything was finally clicking(to the best the young offense could)......until the next game. LOL.

[The Michigan Man]

I agree 100%. I wonder if all of you who think Threet is even close to acceptable at Michigan watched any of the games or just became Michigan fans last season and are totally unaware of the tradition we have? I like the incomplete screen pass offense as much as the next guy, but c'mon let's give somebody a chance who could do better than me blindfolded. I'll also say it again that in measuring the suckitude of Threet and Sheridan that Sheridan played the best game of any qb we had last year against Minnesota.

Do you get a lot of satisfaction out of beating up a 19 year old who was put in a situation that he couldn't possibly succeed in last year?

I watched every game, just as I did growing up, and just as I did while attending the university. Do you realize that Threet only had one returning starter to work with on offense? In a perfect world, he would have been holding a clipboard for another 2 years, but he had to come in and start, and did the best he could under the circumstances. How many games did his O line, WRs, and RBs start prior to last year? Name one QB who has ever had a winning record with 1st year starters at all of those key positions.

You people who just want to roast these kids because they are young and green are pathetic, and are a black-eye to true Michigan fans who can actually tell the difference between an inexperienced player in a green offense and being untalented. The Michigan "tradition" includes having educated fans - try to be one instead of being a cynical mouthpiece.

[goblue]

The best case for Michigan would be for Threet to start game one, Forcier to push him and by game six, Tate starting, Threet a back up and you throw in DRob in there every now and than. Than get Gardner in the 2010 class and Redshirt him, that way there will be two years between Tate/Robinson and Gardner and by 2011, you will have Threet who will be a senior, Forcier will be a Jr and Gardner will be a Freshman and you have Denard Robinson who can play all over the Field.

Even though I recently posted saying my guess would be RR would start Forcier/Robinson in game one, this scenario would be a safe way to go and would give us a better chance of hooking Gardner. The last thing I'd want to see is Tressel hooking Gardner when he's in our backyard. Ohio State wants this kid bad. Tressel himself already came up to Michigan and visited Gardner at Inkster during a basketball game last week.

This would also make it easier on Forcier/Robinson if they have some time to adjust and gradually work themselves in instead of throwing them into the lions with no experience.

However, this could possibly pose some problems in two different ways. One would be would the fans have the patience to have these two young talents on the sidelines while recognizing that this will be another rebuilding year? Especially if we lose some of these games due to Threet not really being a dual threat qb.

The other problem it could pose is say Threet is doing well and is able to throw the ball downfield and hit his targets. Lets not forget that Threet was rated a four star qb in high school. Say Michigan gets on a roll and has the momentum going. It might be difficult putting in Forcier/Robinson if Michigan is winning with Threet.

[tpilews]

The other problem it could pose is say Threet is doing well and is able to throw the ball downfield and hit his targets. Lets not forget that Threet was rated a four star qb in high school. Say Michigan gets on a roll and has the momentum going. It might be difficult putting in Forcier/Robinson if Michigan is winning with Threet.

If that's the case, then obviously Tate/Denard see mop up duty. But, in all reality, do you see Threet being able to lead the offense.

[tpilews]

Apparently every time we talk about Threet we must also preface it by saying,

"Yes, I know Threet didn't fit the offense, and probably still doesn't, but I admire the way he took the bull by the horns, and never gave up. He showed a lot of heart and I admire that. Threet could really be a great quarterback in the right system. He shows a ton of upside. It's too bad he was just thrown into a game and system that didn't fit him, with players around him that have no experience in the offense and an offensive line that can't block."

[tpilews]

From mgoblog:


Tate making his presence felt

I have read that Tate is getting situated quickly and having a VERY strong impact to the point where senior receivers are claiming his timing and accuracy are way beyond what would be expected of a Freshman QB, especially in the all important quick routes.

Don't be surprised to see him starting if this is true. This kid wants to elevate this team in the worst possible way and that means he will kick others in the butt to elevate their game too.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c373/tpilews/l_18845bc5c64e48039ffca87128c5a087.jpg


Yeah there was something about in passing drills receivers were getting hit in the head because they weren't ready for his delivery speed. I hope it's true.

[tpilews]

http://detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090205/SPORTS0201/902050401/1131/SPORTS0201


'Self-driven'

Competition is what Forcier brings to the table. Not to mention, speed, arm strength and accuracy. He said he has been throwing every day and participating in seven-on-seven drills Tuesdays and Thursdays.

He also spends a lot of time watching film, trying to do all the little things that will help him adjust to the college game that is much faster. Smith described Forcier as "self-driven".

"(Tate) has some of the best mechanics I think I've seen in a high school kid in a while," Smith said. "He's a hard-working kid, humble and willing to work. The kid has a knack -- he's been playing football and winning games ever since he's been little. That kind of gives him an edge."

Forcier describes himself as a "pure" quarterback, one that is athletic and already has the technique down. He believes he has the added advantage of running the spread offense all through high school, so he understands how to run it and is used to it.

Being a pure quarterback also might suggest innate confidence.

"I just have the swagger a quarterback needs to have," Forcier said. "I know what I can do, and I'm going to do it. You can never be worried about competition. You're going to have to compete every day regardless. I have no worries about competition I know what I can do, what I'm capable of."

Is he capable of starting as soon as this fall?

"It's a possibility," he said. "I have a long way to go. Nothing is going to be given to me. It's hard to answer that because Nick and Steve are going to have the experience part ahead of me. I might be more athletic than them, but experience is everything, and that's something I'm lacking. That's the only thing that I'm doubting, but we'll see how spring goes.

"I don't want to talk too soon."

Maybe not.

But remember his name.

[blueisbetterthanred]

Throwing every day and watching the films are the things that I really enjoy seeing. Everything does point to him being a great QB for us. Another Brady? Maybe not... but I do at least see the possibility. Tate running the spread all throughout high school is a huge plus.

Funny to see him mention nick... is he even on the radar for next season?

[tpilews]

Funny to see him mention nick... is he even on the radar for next season?

Having grown up in a football family, Nick has a ton of knowledge of the game. Nick seems like he's a smart kid, so I'm sure Tate could learn a few things from him.

As far as him being in the running for playing time, I'd think he's in the running as much as Threet is. You gotta remember, Nick beat Steve out for the starting job last year. Nick also had the best game of any qb last year. I'm not sure why people are so pissed about Nick, but give Steve a pass (no pun intended). Nick was put in some very tough spots, yet no one seems to say anything about that, they just give Steve the benefit of the doubt.

[goblue]

If that's the case, then obviously Tate/Denard see mop up duty. But, in all reality, do you see Threet being able to lead the offense.

If Forcier/Robinson see mop up duty and Threet finishes strong this year, that might mean Forcier/Robinson see mop up duty for the next three years, being that Threet is just a sophomore this year. If that's the case, I'm sure at least one of the two would transfer.

In reality it's possible Threet could be better than last year and win some games that he wasn't able to do last year now that he's got a year under his belt and hopefully a more supporting cast. But I still see Forcier either starting in the opener or starting sometime in the early season. Threet wasn't recruited by RR and isn't a dual threat qb. Forcier/Robinson were recruited by RR and have the versatility that it takes to run RR's spread. I can't imagine RR would take the risk of having these two guys transfer due to lack of playing time.

[bighousemike84]

Just look how coach Rod handled things last year. Right now it is a wide open competition between all QBs. Sheridan and Threet(dont forget the Coner!) have as much of an opportunity as Forcier and Robinson to be the starting QB and considering their experience through last year you could argue that Nick and Steve are the front runners. Does that mean they will be the starter? No.

I think we can argue about it all day but there really is no argument until after the spring game and we have a clearer picture of the QB position

[MoellerLover69(LloydCarr)]

Do you get a lot of satisfaction out of beating up a 19 year old who was put in a situation that he couldn't possibly succeed in last year?

I watched every game, just as I did growing up, and just as I did while attending the university. Do you realize that Threet only had one returning starter to work with on offense? In a perfect world, he would have been holding a clipboard for another 2 years, but he had to come in and start, and did the best he could under the circumstances. How many games did his O line, WRs, and RBs start prior to last year? Name one QB who has ever had a winning record with 1st year starters at all of those key positions.

You people who just want to roast these kids because they are young and green are pathetic, and are a black-eye to true Michigan fans who can actually tell the difference between an inexperienced player in a green offense and being untalented. The Michigan "tradition" includes having educated fans - try to be one instead of being a cynical mouthpiece.

You are so annoying Michigan Man. In your rediculous little world anyone involved with Michigan is beyond reproach and you get an ego boost by acting like the bastion of justice and painting the slightest criticism as treachery. If somebody on the team sucks most of us on here are cool with the idea of having the balls to write what we think. I think a decent qb could complete a screen pass to answer your whiny pathetic ramblings on inexperience.

[GoBlue21]

I love all this talk about Threet this and Threet that but Michigan fans fail to remember that he didn't even start against Utah in the opener?!?! Sheridan got the nod because RichRod thought he gave Michigan a better chance to win period. They rotated him in but if Threet is SO MUCH better than Sheridan, then why didn't he get the nod?

The best performance of the year by any QB was Sheridan vs. Minnesota, hands down! The defense saved us against Wisconsin, that was obvious. Threet or Sheridan just don't fit this offense, neither excel in one area of passing or throwing. Sheridan doesn't have the Div. 1 arm or the athletic ability to run the offense and Threet doesn't have the athletic ability or the accurancy to excel in the offense either. They both gave it their all but just don't fit the system, the truth hurts. Threet's release is nothing to write home about either, its awkward!

Maybe Threet/Sheridan get the nod to start the season but I think it will be short lived. I hate to say this but I agree with Nut. You start Tate/Denard or rotate both and get them experience. It can only help in the long run. Both of these guys are explosive with their arms and legs. They are light years ahead of Threet/Sheridan in the spread offense. I just think they give Michigan a better chance to win already. I know they haven't taken a college snap yet but did Sheridan/Threet improve any during the season to signify a starting position? Not in my mind.

I argued with tUOS fans about benching Boeckman but it's all a mood point. They won with TP and he's going to be the starter for at least 2 more years. The experience he received this past season is only going to make him better. He won games with athletic abilty alone and a solid running game. Sound familiar? Michigan SHOULD have a solid running game with Minor, Shaw, Brown and company. 9-10 returning starters on offense and HOPEFULLY 2 QB's with a lot of athletic ability and good arms...

I say Tate/Denard from the get-go and let them do what they do best! There is a reason why these guys were being recruited so heavily and why Michigan wanted them. There is absolutely nobody in front of them that is a stand alone starter. If we had a Chad Henne or Drew Henson or Tom Brady in front of them, then that's a different story. But Michigan isn't in that situation now-a-days and I'm sure that's where they want to be at in the future. You want your incoming freshman to learn from your starters and experience players. Does Michigan have that at the QB position? I don't think so. They have ONE GAME to go off of and that's Minnesota. You have bright spots like Purdue, Wisconsin, and a few others but nothing to write home about. Minor stepped up half way throught the season and helped the QB's out a lot. That will only add help to the athletic ability of Denard/Tate because like many of people have said, these guys can keep plays alive and buy time for plays that weren't originally there and turn them in big plays.

Sorry for the novel but I'll end it with this. I know these freshman haven't stepped foot on a college football field but I remember being at the Michigan vs. Oregon game 2 years ago. Dennis Dixon made Michigan's defense look like swiss cheese. I know Appy St did too but I didn't get to see that game (Thank god!). But anyway, Dixon's athletic ability was amazing and he did it to a lot of teams that year. Now that RichRod is here, Michigan has the opportunity to have a QB like that. I'm not comparing Denard/Tate to Dixon but why can't these guys be that type of player? I'm rooting for incoming tandom :D

Oh yeah......GO BLUE!

[The Michigan Man]

You are so annoying Michigan Man. In your rediculous little world anyone involved with Michigan is beyond reproach and you get an ego boost by acting like the bastion of justice and painting the slightest criticism as treachery. If somebody on the team sucks most of us on here are cool with the idea of having the balls to write what we think. I think a decent qb could complete a screen pass to answer your whiny pathetic ramblings on inexperience.

Was your transition to being a hack a quick one or did it happen gradually?

[MoellerLover69(LloydCarr)]

Was your transition to being a hack a quick one or did it happen gradually?
All the Michigan players are young so I see no faults in any of them. I like Michigan therefore everything going on at Michigan is good as I am a Michigan fan. Steven Threet is both young and on Michigan so he is a good qb. I will keep these exciting posts filled with your intellectual tour de force coming so I can please you!:)

[The Michigan Man]

All the Michigan players are young so I see no faults in any of them. I like Michigan therefore everything going on at Michigan is good as I am a Michigan fan. Steven Threet is both young and on Michigan so he is a good qb. I will keep these exciting posts filled with your intellectual tour de force coming so I can please you!:)

Hey hack, you didn't answer the question I posed above.

[Don Unverferth]

Was your transition to being a hack a quick one or did it happen gradually?

If you have opposing opinions that are valid you are either a hack or a troll on this board. It's much easier to name call and label than it is to admit that you are wrong or discuss as an adult.

[tpilews]

If you have opposing opinions that are valid you are either a hack or a troll on this board. It's much easier to name call and label than it is to admit that you are wrong or discuss as an adult.

Sometimes it's the way you say it, not what you are saying that makes you a hack or troll.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with anything anyone wrote in this thread. Do we really need to preface anything we say about Threet with how much we admire his work and dedication. I think that is a given. Can we please get beyond that?

[Don Unverferth]

I honestly believe Michigan did very well in getting these guys, especially Robinson. IMO Sheridan or Threet will transfer because of these recruits coming in. I think that Forcier will be under center more than Robinson; Robinson is a hybrid type of player that can be used in multiple postions, QB, WR, even CB, and wouldn't be surprised if R Rod implements some wild cat formations for Robinson.

[Sten Carlson]

I honestly believe Michigan did very well in getting these guys, especially Robinson. IMO Sheridan or Threet will transfer because of these recruits coming in. I think that Forcier will be under center more than Robinson; Robinson is a hybrid type of player that can be used in multiple postions, QB, WR, even CB, and wouldn't be surprised if R Rod implements some wild cat formations for Robinson.

Hey what do you know, actually a reasonable comment from Don, and one which I agree with 100%.

See Don, it's not that hard to say something without being a total d-bag!

[Don Unverferth]

Hey what do you know, actually a reasonable comment from Don, and one which I agree with 100%.

See Don, it's not that hard to say something without being a total d-bag!

And as soon as I don't agree with something I'll be a d-bag again right?

[Sten Carlson]

And as soon as I don't agree with something I'll be a d-bag again right?

It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing Don. In fact, if you knew me in person, you'd know that I relish debate, conversation, and interacting with people whose viewpoint and opinions are different than mine. That being said, however, the people (both in person and virtual) who are very difficult to interact with, are the people that 1). refuse to answer the question at hand, 2). those that have that annoying "snickering" tone to their end of the conversation (which you do at times), and 3). people that are so steadfastly biased that debate is impossible as they refuse to even entertain your opinion or contentions (much like arguing with a Jehovah's Witness -- which I enjoy at times). Unfortunately Don, I think at times you embody all three of these traits.

For example, I had a recent discussion/debate about the USA Patriot Act, and specifically, it's Constitutionality (I am a law student at present, and enjoy such conversations). The person I was debating is a practicing attorney, who claimed that not only were all the executive orders issued by the former president legal, but that the USA Patriot Act, rendition, suspension of habeas corpus, etc were all constitutional. This person then tried to quash the discussion by saying, "you don't know anything as you're only in L1" and refused to justify their contention -- a stance which I call the
"intellectual superiority" defense. I don't care what your position is, nor what the issue, but come to the table with some rational, some justification for your argument -- other than "faith" or in this case, a bias toward OSU. I have studied the Constitution, history, and politics in depth long before I ever entered law school, and I am fully capable of participating an intelligent debate on the subject. I have had similar discussions with scientists who claim that humans are causing "global warming" in which they dismiss you due to the fact that you're not a PhD.

You Don, have a tendency to dismiss arguments raised by Michigan Men and Women, and continually spout your party line, while making very little effort many times to actually address the issue or the question raised -- hence your being labeled a troll. You and Nut hijack threads which are otherwise interesting, and turn the discussion into something that it wasn't intended to be.

So, when I asked you if you think that OSU's relative lack of success in the "big game" of late has to do with it's heavy reliance upon Ohio players, you made no response, other than defensive comments about how Michigan's recruiting class isn't as good as we all think it is, and that EVERYONE is getting players from Florida so there is nothing to get excited about.

Run the Ball is a perfect example of what I am speaking about. He makes unsubstantiated claims, and then when asked to substantiate them, he hurls insults and claims that all is lost and everything is ruined. As I said, I will debate any topic you want, but the "no...no...no...I am right and you're wrong" tactic employed by 3rd graders isn't going to cut in my opinion.

So, until you improve your debate skills, and until you learn how to have an intelligent discussion with rivals without letting your bias color everything that you say or discuss, you will always be nothing but a TROLL.

This

[Don Unverferth]

Note to self: do not respond to Sten without Ibuprofin. Sorry Sten, not reading all of this.
__________________

[Sten Carlson]

Note to self: do not respond to Sten without Ibuprofin. Sorry Sten, not reading all of this.
__________________

You failed Reading Skills 101 at OSU huh?

Reading can be tough Don...sound it out...you'll get it...maybe Hooked on Phonics! Look Mom, I can read!!!

[Todd]

Note to self: do not respond to Sten without Ibuprofin. Sorry Sten, not reading all of this.
__________________

Sten,
Looks like you proved your point. Case closed!

[The Michigan Man]

Sometimes it's the way you say it, not what you are saying that makes you a hack or troll.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with anything anyone wrote in this thread. Do we really need to preface anything we say about Threet with how much we admire his work and dedication. I think that is a given. Can we please get beyond that?

Ding ding, you get it!

If you are a true fan and you love this program, you know how to assess criticism in a classy way that is not deragatory to the kids who participate.

[MoellerLover69(LloydCarr)]

Ding ding, you get it!

If you are a true fan and you love this program, you know how to assess criticism in a classy way that is not deragatory to the kids who participate.


Simply awesome Michigan Man. Let me class things up so I don't hurt Steven's feelings because I'm sure his suicide rides upon my opinion of his performance last year.

In the spirit of being "a true fan" I must say that despite all of Threet's gutsy machismo he failed to live up to my expectation that the qb at the winningest program in history could complete a screen pass.

[Don Unverferth]

You failed Reading Skills 101 at OSU huh?

Reading can be tough Don...sound it out...you'll get it...maybe Hooked on Phonics! Look Mom, I can read!!!

Why should I read the same dribble over and over. You could have made your point in 100 words or less yet you have the propensity to write volumes. You must enjoy immensely being repetitive but I find it a waste of time and you haven't accomplished anything. You should be spending more time job hunting and less time on forums.

Here's a tip as well. If you're thin skinned stop reading my posts.

[MoellerLover69(LloydCarr)]

Don, is that a real quote by Deshawn Sims? Even if he feels that way it makes me want to puke that he would say that!

[StevieBrownforHeisman]

Here's the article:

http://www.freep.com/article/20090129/SPORTS06/901290419/1054/Smashmouth+game+goes+to+Bucks


Asked about the bad blood, Sims didn't hesitate.


"Definitely," he said. "Playing Ohio State is like playing your bigger brother. You have to win to gain their respect. You've got to come out and play them hard because, if not, they won't respect you


So is that why you're here, Don? To gain our respect? What other reason would there be?
If your an OSU fan go root for OSU. You pay way to much attention to michigan. But I guess having haters is what helps Michigan be GREAT! Kind of like being a Yankees or Lakers fan and honestly the constant hate is flattering. Keep it up.