Occupy Wall Street

[Shauneyboy68]

Zilla 2.0, I thought I saw you there.

Anyway, what you girls' opinions on this? I think Bloomberg is a coward for not driving all these degenerates out. "Liberty" Park is PRIVATE property. What's the role of government if not to protect the rights of the people? The owners of the park want the protestors gone and the business owners surrounding the park are suffering horrific finanical losses all because the mayor doesn't have a spine. I heard the owner of a small sandwich shop adjacent to the park on the radio today. She talked about how these people force their way into her place of busniess to use her bathroom... not just to take a leak, but to bathe in her sink, dispose of bags of their feces, and use her cleaning products. They use her electricity to charge their computers. She tries to keep them out but whenever a customer braves the crowds to enter her store, a horde of people force their way in along with the customer. Her suppliers can't reach the store due to barricades, and construction workers and Wall St. workers won't bother to go there due to the harassment they face from the people in the park.

Today, in Boston, the occupy whatever people spat on a member of the Coast Guard and threw a water bottle at her. I always knew the "I support the troops, not the war" mantra of the left was a load of shit.

This isn't a free speech issue; these people are trespassing, plain and simple.

I love how the freaking President and former Speaker of the House came out in support of these demonstrations. It’s wonderful. These guys are taking shits on police cars and Nancy Pelosi clasps her hands in front of her chest and says “Oh, this is so wonderful!”

Meanwhile at the tea party rally, which is held at night or on the weekend (because most “tea baggers” have jobs and responsibilities), people are peaceful, clean up after themselves, and patronize the local businesses.

Actually, typing this out, I think the Tea Party movement and Occupy Wall Street are beautiful personifications of right and left values.

[wolverine]

I think the tea party is a grass roots movment , were as the Occupy Wall Street
movement is a bought and paid for movement , just look at the craigslist ads paying youngsters up to $300 a week to go and protest ,

[The Michigan Man]

Zilla 2.0, I thought I saw you there.

Anyway, what you girls' opinions on this? I think Bloomberg is a coward for not driving all these degenerates out. "Liberty" Park is PRIVATE property. What's the role of government if not to protect the rights of the people? The owners of the park want the protestors gone and the business owners surrounding the park are suffering horrific finanical losses all because the mayor doesn't have a spine. I heard the owner of a small sandwich shop adjacent to the park on the radio today. She talked about how these people force their way into her place of busniess to use her bathroom... not just to take a leak, but to bathe in her sink, dispose of bags of their feces, and use her cleaning products. They use her electricity to charge their computers. She tries to keep them out but whenever a customer braves the crowds to enter her store, a horde of people force their way in along with the customer. Her suppliers can't reach the store due to barricades, and construction workers and Wall St. workers won't bother to go there due to the harassment they face from the people in the park.

Today, in Boston, the occupy whatever people spat on a member of the Coast Guard and threw a water bottle at her. I always knew the "I support the troops, not the war" mantra of the left was a load of shit.

This isn't a free speech issue; these people are trespassing, plain and simple.

I love how the freaking President and former Speaker of the House came out in support of these demonstrations. It’s wonderful. These guys are taking shits on police cars and Nancy Pelosi clasps her hands in front of her chest and says “Oh, this is so wonderful!”

Meanwhile at the tea party rally, which is held at night or on the weekend (because most “tea baggers” have jobs and responsibilities), people are peaceful, clean up after themselves, and patronize the local businesses.

Actually, typing this out, I think the Tea Party movement and Occupy Wall Street are beautiful personifications of right and left values.

Where can I send donations, like Dobermans and firehoses, to help the local police keep order? Local radio was interviewing some of these scumbags, not one can actually articulate what the purpose is of what they are doing.

[Wolvrin704]

What amazes me is how the media has degenerated the Tea Party, which has gone about changing through the political process. While the Occupy movement has been praised to the mountain tops. It also amazes me how people put all the blame on Wall Street and not on themselves, we had no problem wanting more a decade ago when things were going well. We all wanted our big new house and new cars and didn't complain one iota about how Wall Street was causing most of our good times, we just kept gong ahead and didn't care that we were spending all our money on a house we couldn't afford or credit cards we couldn't even afford to pay the minimums on. The banks were willing to lend and we were willing to sign.
Another thing that gets me is how this movement is all about "get the fat cats on Wall Street". OK, fair enough but what about all the entertainers? We spend obscene amounts of money for entertainment in sports, movies, song, media, etc. Why? Call the bums to be held accountable as well.

Lastly, I do agree in some parts with the Occupy movement but very small. I didn't agree at the time with bank bailouts and I still disagree. Had the taxpayers been given that money it would have done more good than what was given to the banks.

[zilla 2.0]

I think the tea party is a grass roots movment , were as the Occupy Wall Street
movement is a bought and paid for movement , just look at the craigslist ads paying youngsters up to $300 a week to go and protest ,

Ha look up the Koch brothers.

[zilla 2.0]

Zilla 2.0, I thought I saw you there.

Anyway, what you girls' opinions on this? I think Bloomberg is a coward for not driving all these degenerates out. "Liberty" Park is PRIVATE property. What's the role of government if not to protect the rights of the people? The owners of the park want the protestors gone and the business owners surrounding the park are suffering horrific finanical losses all because the mayor doesn't have a spine. I heard the owner of a small sandwich shop adjacent to the park on the radio today. She talked about how these people force their way into her place of busniess to use her bathroom... not just to take a leak, but to bathe in her sink, dispose of bags of their feces, and use her cleaning products. They use her electricity to charge their computers. She tries to keep them out but whenever a customer braves the crowds to enter her store, a horde of people force their way in along with the customer. Her suppliers can't reach the store due to barricades, and construction workers and Wall St. workers won't bother to go there due to the harassment they face from the people in the park.

Today, in Boston, the occupy whatever people spat on a member of the Coast Guard and threw a water bottle at her. I always knew the "I support the troops, not the war" mantra of the left was a load of shit.

This isn't a free speech issue; these people are trespassing, plain and simple.

I love how the freaking President and former Speaker of the House came out in support of these demonstrations. It’s wonderful. These guys are taking shits on police cars and Nancy Pelosi clasps her hands in front of her chest and says “Oh, this is so wonderful!”

Meanwhile at the tea party rally, which is held at night or on the weekend (because most “tea baggers” have jobs and responsibilities), people are peaceful, clean up after themselves, and patronize the local businesses.

Actually, typing this out, I think the Tea Party movement and Occupy Wall Street are beautiful personifications of right and left values.


There are 2 million sites on the internet where you can talk politics. What about the name Hail Victors says politics?

[Welding Engineer]

Winter's coming, the Occupy thing will become a southern problem. Where I live, these Cleveland occupiers certainly aren't going to face down that wind coming off of lake Erie in a month or two, they aren't that dedicated.

[Welding Engineer]

If I was a local businessman I think it would become bring my dog to work day, everyday. That Shepherd hates hippies, probably cause I trained her...

[Shauneyboy68]

Occupying Cleveland in a bid for wealth redistribution makes about as much sense as occupying Ethiopia in a bid for grain redistribution.

And why would you train your dog to bite hippies? Do you want your dog to live in agony from hepatitis for the last few days of its life before the state puts it down?

[Buzz]

I think the tea party is a grass roots movment , were as the Occupy Wall Street
movement is a bought and paid for movement , just look at the craigslist ads paying youngsters up to $300 a week to go and protest ,

You have it inside out man, the tea party isn't a grass roots movement. Question. Any of you guys know what a credit default swap is? What's the goldman exception, or what the sherman act is all about? These are at the root of the Occupy movement.

I'm willing to bet that if any of you knew the answers to my question(s), were able to connect the dots, don't believe gas prices are rising because of "jitters in the Middle East" and isn't making $500,000 or more you'd be motivated by this movement.

[AbRKnight]

You have it inside out man, the tea party isn't a grass roots movement. Question. Any of you guys know what a credit default swap is? What's the goldman exception, or what the sherman act is all about? These are at the root of the Occupy movement.

I'm willing to bet that if any of you knew the answers to my question(s), were able to connect the dots, don't believe gas prices are rising because of "jitters in the Middle East" and isn't making $500,000 or more you'd be motivated by this movement.

Wow, Buzz and I agree on something. If most people paid more attention, they would be taking part in the protests as well. The comments referring to them as hippies is disappointing yet not surprising, and illustrates much ignorance.

People have become sheeple to corporations and zombies to the airwaves, as our rights are being stripped away slowly but surely in the name of "security." Government is now making it illegal for workers to bargain for their own benefits.

But yeah, it's nothing to go all "hippy" about right?

[Welding Engineer]

Wow, Buzz and I agree on something. If most people paid more attention, they would be taking part in the protests as well. The comments referring to them as hippies is disappointing yet not surprising, and illustrates much ignorance.

You are completely wrong. The people taking part in the protests are hippies and don't know the first thing about credit default swaps, etc... Have you listened to these people being interviewed on the news at all? I agree there are larger players involved, but they certainly aren't camped out.

Four different people interviewed on the news in Cleveland gave four different answers why they were there protesting. None of them could articulate a concept beyond what would be described as simple wealth envy.

Corporate America will always be three steps ahead of where the regulators are. Just the way it is. I mean you don't see me camped outside of GE protesting that they fanagled their way out of paying any federal taxes last year either.

(I don't train any of my dogs to bite hippies for the record. I simply stated that my female shepherd hates hippies, which funny enough, isn't a joke.)

[zilla 2.0]

You have it inside out man, the tea party isn't a grass roots movement. Question. Any of you guys know what a credit default swap is? What's the goldman exception, or what the sherman act is all about? These are at the root of the Occupy movement.

I'm willing to bet that if any of you knew the answers to my question(s), were able to connect the dots, don't believe gas prices are rising because of "jitters in the Middle East" and isn't making $500,000 or more you'd be motivated by this movement.

What you listed is the root problem of Wall Street not the occupy thing. 90% of them don't have a clue as to the things you mentioned. One of my facebook friends is part of occupy Oakland, he is a highschool dropout and has a felony for pot dealing yet blames the worlds problems on corporations. I mean really????? Others I have read about are 18 - 25 and have tons of loan debt and a crappy first job out of college, well welcome to the real world. My first job was rotten and after paying my bills I was broke. I worked past that and now I live well.

I am not saying things aren't broken, but the young people protesting seem more like spoiled brats then something that should be taken serious.

[AbRKnight]

What you listed is the root problem of Wall Street not the occupy thing. 90% of them don't have a clue as to the things you mentioned. One of my facebook friends is part of occupy Oakland, he is a highschool dropout and has a felony for pot dealing yet blames the worlds problems on corporations. I mean really????? Others I have read about are 18 - 25 and have tons of loan debt and a crappy first job out of college, well welcome to the real world. My first job was rotten and after paying my bills I was broke. I worked past that and now I live well.

I am not saying things aren't broken, but the young people protesting seem more like spoiled brats then something that should be taken serious.

Doesn't every movement have bad factions acting outside of the message? I am sure there are people with all sorts of problems that are their fault, and who's personal credibility is suspect, but that doesn't in and of itself discredit the message(s) as a whole.

[Welding Engineer]

I remember there being legislation that would have eliminated the "Naked Credit Default Swap" which is the problem, credit default swaps are fine, you might disagree. Naked credit default swaps are still going on so I suppose the legislation died in committee or whatever.

[AbRKnight]

You are completely wrong. The people taking part in the protests are hippies and don't know the first thing about credit default swaps, etc... Have you listened to these people being interviewed on the news at all? I agree there are larger players involved, but they certainly aren't camped out.

Four different people interviewed on the news in Cleveland gave four different answers why they were there protesting. None of them could articulate a concept beyond what would be described as simple wealth envy.

Corporate America will always be three steps ahead of where the regulators are. Just the way it is. I mean you don't see me camped outside of GE protesting that they fanagled their way out of paying any federal taxes last year either.

(I don't train any of my dogs to bite hippies for the record. I simply stated that my female shepherd hates hippies, which funny enough, isn't a joke.)

Hippy...http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/310409_268992939808121_188916747815741_792610_8975 50119_n.jpg

Hippy and his hippie daughter...http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqMOvEAVDTZ3umClhRlGf7A-Yt_HRRTVN7yYnJb--ZL3GUAhU1eA

Obvious hippies Russel Simons and Kanye West...http://static.poponthepop.com/images/gallery/celebrities-occupy-wall-street_530x398.jpg

I could post hundreds of pictures of the various labor unions taking part, most of whom are social conservative, love to hunt and fish, and some of whom voted against their own economic interest by voting republican because of the "sportsmen for bush" BS and like political spin. The point now is people have had quite enough, and it is getting to the point where people aren't going to be walked on anymore. It is much bigger than credit default swaps!

[Welding Engineer]

Doesn't every movement have bad factions acting outside of the message? I am sure there are people with all sorts of problems that are their fault, and who's personal credibility is suspect, but that doesn't in and of itself discredit the message(s) as a whole.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Wall Street is the .gov's most powerful ally in affecting real change on main street. It is in America's best interest to have these companies do as well as they possibly can.

[Welding Engineer]

You know what you get esophageal cancer from? A lifetime of making the same bad decision every day, ...day, after day, after day. I'm suppose to feel sorry for this guy? He worked for 23 years, 60 hour work weeks and has nothing to show for it? He decided not to afford health insurance when he lost his job? I'm suppose to feel sorry for that? You know what you get after making a lifetime of bad decisions? The accumulated receipts of those bad decisions. So fuck him and his rotted out throat. (Is this one of the people you were referring to who is going to educate me on credit default swaps?)

The truth is 60 some percent of the population has savings, and 30 some percent of the population doesn't have savings. Unless your savings is in cash under your mattress those funds are out their being manipulated by somebody else. It could be your savings account that the credit union is actually investing in municipal bonds, or it could be your pension funds that are being invested in India and China right now. 60 some percent of the population wants these wall street companies to do well whether they now it or not, the other 30 percent are just envious of wealth after making bad decisions.

[AbRKnight]

You know what you get esophageal cancer from? A lifetime of making the same bad decision every day, ...day, after day, after day. I'm suppose to feel sorry for this guy? He worked for 23 years, 60 hour work weeks and has nothing to show for it? He decided not to afford health insurance when he lost his job? I'm suppose to feel sorry for that? You know what you get after making a lifetime of bad decisions? The accumulated receipts of those bad decisions. So fuck him and his rotted out throat. (Is this one of the people you were referring to who is going to educate me on credit default swaps?)

The truth is 60 some percent of the population has savings, and 30 some percent of the population doesn't have savings. Unless your savings is in cash under your mattress those funds are out their being manipulated by somebody else. It could be your savings account that the credit union is actually investing in municipal bonds, or it could be your pension funds that are being invested in India and China right now. 60 some percent of the population wants these wall street companies to do well whether they now it or not, the other 30 percent are just envious of wealth after making bad decisions.

Where did I say anyone would educate you on credit default swaps? Secondly, my point in the pictures proved that they're not hippies as you claimed.

I am not going to try to defend any single person's story because I saw a picture of them on the internet. But how can you trash someone because you saw their picture on the internet that told you they have cancer and don't have insurance??

Thirdly, are those real statistics or are you kinda maybe making them up a little bit. Link please?

[Welding Engineer]

http://www.ebri.org/surveys/rcs/2011/

http://www.ebri.org/pdf/surveys/rcs/2011/EBRI_03-2011_No355_RCS-11.pdf

You can look across the board using google perhaps, 30 some percent, it varies between surveys and web sites and information compared, have nothing saved for retirement or less than 10k. The other 60 percent have some sort of savings for retirement.

What I'm saying is all that money, and the money you paid for your house, and what is in your local savings account, is being manipulated by all the markets of the earth. It is in America's best interest to see Wall St. do well. The better they do, the better we all do.

[zilla 2.0]

At the port as of late Wednesday, "Maritime operations remain effectively shut down, and the port has been taking steps to help workers in the harbor area get home safely," the port said in a statement. "Maritime operations will not resume until it is safe and secure to do so."

Port officials hope to resume business Thursday. "Continued missed shifts represent economic hardship for maritime workers, truckers and their families, as well as lost jobs and lost tax revenue for our region," the port statement said.



As I posted already I agree things are broken right now but what does the above solve? The 1% is hurt by working class people missing work by shutting down the port? I think this is nothing but a facebook lead movement that is bringing out the children for some fun.

[Welding Engineer]

Where did I say anyone would educate you on credit default swaps? Secondly, my point in the pictures proved that they're not hippies as you claimed.

I am not going to try to defend any single person's story because I saw a picture of them on the internet. But how can you trash someone because you saw their picture on the internet that told you they have cancer and don't have insurance??

Thirdly, are those real statistics or are you kinda maybe making them up a little bit. Link please?

People that become urban campers are either homeless, or hippies, misinformed, or some combination there-of. I just lump them all together and call them hippies. Generally I've found that people that use phrases like "sharing the wealth," "distributing the wealth,"giving back," and villifying those that are successful are hippies or have tendencies close enough to hippie culture to be described as "hippie." It's the outlook on life that makes the hippie, not the clothes or appearance.

How can I trash somebody I saw on the internet? Like I just did. The guy's story is a product of his lifetime of bad decisions. I don't feel bad for other people's bad decisions. Ever read the fable of the ant and the grasshopper?

[Revelli]

Look, I don't mind everyone having their own opinion on the subject of these rallies, but let me ask you this; where is the media that was so hard on the tea-partiers on this issue. I have grown tired of the liberal media reporting their sensationalism and calling it journalism. People like Pelosi who went on tv and called the peaceful, tea-party people "astroturf" are also part of the problem. And if you are one of those a$$-hats who stands around saying "Koch-brothers" five times per sentence when it comes to the tea partiers, you are an ignorant fool. The Koch brothers didn't give financial backing until AFTER the tea party was a national grass roots movement. Do your homework, you media sheep.

Anyone who is a part of the occupy wall street movement is an uneducated fool, and deserves to be treated as such. This isn't about credit default swaps or any other issue you may have in your craw. This is about radical leftists, who want to destroy our capitalist country and replace it with their "socialist utopia".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L088WJ9c98

[michAGAIN]

GO BLUE!! Oh wait...this isn't about Michigan Football?? OK on this "OCCUPY" matter, I am both scared and sadly amused by the lack of brains of people I've seen protesting. Example in point: NY Post - Tonye Iketubosin, 26 -- a protester/occupy kitchen worker was charged yesterday in the sex abuse of an 18-year-old protester in the tent he helped her pitch on Oct. 24, police sources said. Two females pointed him out at that location. Yes there are bad apples in every crowd BUT then they go on to say when protesters in Zuccotti Park become aware of crimes, instead of calling the police, they form a circle around the perpetrator, chastise him or her and chase him or her out into the rest of the city to do who knows what to who knows whom. The guy rapes a woman and the protestors FORM A CIRCLE AND CHASTISE HIM!! SERIOUSLY??!!! THIS IS HOW THEIR SOCIETY WORKS??!! THIS IS JUSTICE IN THEIR SOCIETY??!! GOD HELP US ALL!!



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/bloomberg_says_ows_demonstrators_4deQrAaDyGOxc2W7Q 9OngI#ixzz1cf1k5Q5D

[Welding Engineer]

GO BLUE!! Oh wait...this isn't about Michigan Football?? OK on this "OCCUPY" matter, I am both scared and sadly amused by the lack of brains of people I've seen protesting. Example in point: NY Post - Tonye Iketubosin, 26 -- a protester/occupy kitchen worker was charged yesterday in the sex abuse of an 18-year-old protester in the tent he helped her pitch on Oct. 24, police sources said. Two females pointed him out at that location. Yes there are bad apples in every crowd BUT then they go on to say when protesters in Zuccotti Park become aware of crimes, instead of calling the police, they form a circle around the perpetrator, chastise him or her and chase him or her out into the rest of the city to do who knows what to who knows whom. The guy rapes a woman and the protestors FORM A CIRCLE AND CHASTISE HIM!! SERIOUSLY??!!! THIS IS HOW THEIR SOCIETY WORKS??!! THIS IS JUSTICE IN THEIR SOCIETY??!! GOD HELP US ALL!!



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/bloomberg_says_ows_demonstrators_4deQrAaDyGOxc2W7Q 9OngI#ixzz1cf1k5Q5D

It shouldn't be a surprise. They fail to hold people accountable for their actions when the results are negative. Let the results be positive and then they want a piece of the action. They fail to hold themselves acountable for the way their lives have turned out and they try to take what is not rightfully theirs.

[Shauneyboy68]

Atta boy Revelli.

AbrKnight, Buzz:

You guys support this so-called "movement," right? You presume to educate us on credit swaps, when even economists struggle on how to put the concept into words.

The President is correct: the occupiers are expressing frustration. But they're also a mob, an incoherent mass of malcontents with a total disregard for the law. The mob mentality is anti-American. Early patriots decried "democracy," using the term "democrat" as a pejorative for those who would seek to usher in mob rule. Which is exactly what the occupiers are doing. "Liberty Park," or whatever they're calling it, is private property. The fact that the police fails to expel them is a travesty. It's no different than if 50 unwanted visitors threw tents up in your front lawn and the police did nothing to remove them: mob rule.

I got to hand it to them; the left played these morons like a fiddle. Instead of identifying the real root of the problem, they’ve been hoodwinked into engaging in some half-baked class warfare. If there's anything to be upset at, it's our government, our politicians. It’s our eco-religion. I agree that "corporate communism" is a very real danger to our nation, but the only reason it's allowed to exist and have such an influence is because of the inordinate amount of power, responsibility, and influence we’ve ceded to Washington. The Constitution wasn’t designed this way, but we’ve run an end-around on the thing, while at the same time allowing hubristic notions of progressivism, utopianism, and American Expectionalism creep in. We’re being led around by the nose with these ideals. And it’s killing us.

People are pissed at Capitalism, when they should be pissed at Government. Capitalism didn’t fail, we failed Capitalism. Get pissed at the Federal Government, a bloated byzantine body whose masters pass laws on the people that don’t apply to themselves. Get pissed at it for failing at it’s most sacred duty, defending national integrity, and, something that blows my mind, preventing the states from stepping in where the government has failed. Get pissed at the free-trade philosopher kings who opened our empire up to the tigers of Asia, allowing them to rape and pillage our economy straight into post-industrialism (Fact: the once mighty British empire embraced “free-trade” in the 19th century. What happened? America surged ahead. America embraced free-trade in the 20th century. What happened? China surges ahead).

So we’ve got these angry children railing against corporate America, the last wealth generator left. And what’s their answer? More government.

[AbRKnight]

The protests aren't strictly anti-business, and they aren't about replacing capitalism. It is about responsible capitalism. In fact the tea party and wall street protests share some common themes like dislike for the irresponsible bailouts.

Additionally, the Federal Reserve revealed the details of 21,000 transactions stretching from December 2007 to July 2010 that totaled more than $3 trillion. Most of these transactions involved giant loans that were nearly interest-free from the Federal Reserve to some of the largest banks, financial institutions and corporations all over the world.

Where's your source you say...well U.S. senator Bernie Sanders had this to say about it:

“The $700 billion Wall Street bailout turned out to be pocket change compared to trillions and trillions of dollars in near zero interest loans and other financial arrangements that the Federal Reserve doled out to every major financial institution.”

So either the FED is corrupt and acting without oversight(yes) and/or the republican "conservatives" that run congress are a fraud(yes). BTW, I'm not saying the democrats are any better. It is all quite a sham.

Literally trillions of dollars have been and continue to be siphoned from this country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/01/AR2010120106870.html?sid=ST2010120106876

[AbRKnight]

I never said anything about educating someone on credit swaps...And I am not anti-capitalism. In fact, my last post reads a lot like yours(shuneyboy68), working responsible capitalism. Please read my post about the trillions of dollars that changed hands, much of it going oversees and to world banks. This all happened behind the scenes and got minimal coverage. Why? Because the media is also part of the mega corporate conglomerate that would rather shift attention toward social events, or quasi-political movements that have almost no impact on our lives while pulling all of the strings behind the scenes.

[Welding Engineer]

The protests aren't strictly anti-business, and they aren't about replacing capitalism. It is about responsible capitalism. In fact the tea party and wall street protests share some common themes like dislike for the irresponsible bailouts.

Additionally, the Federal Reserve revealed the details of 21,000 transactions stretching from December 2007 to July 2010 that totaled more than $3 trillion. Most of these transactions involved giant loans that were nearly interest-free from the Federal Reserve to some of the largest banks, financial institutions and corporations all over the world.

Where's your source you say...well U.S. senator Bernie Sanders had this to say about it:

“The $700 billion Wall Street bailout turned out to be pocket change compared to trillions and trillions of dollars in near zero interest loans and other financial arrangements that the Federal Reserve doled out to every major financial institution.”

So either the FED is corrupt and acting without oversight(yes) and/or the republican "conservatives" that run congress are a fraud(yes). BTW, I'm not saying the democrats are any better. It is all quite a sham.

Literally trillions of dollars have been and continue to be siphoned from this country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/01/AR2010120106870.html?sid=ST2010120106876

Do you have any notion, clue, inkling, or idea on the way our economy actually works? How about the economic world at large? Trillions of dollars siphoned off to where, what person where has trillions of dollars in there posession given to him or her by the fed? There is no bank anywhere going, "He he he, look at our pile of US dollars." (Some sovereign wealth funds perhaps but those are outside the scope of your post.)

Yes these banks were effectively given billions of dollars (to straighten up balance sheets and the funds were effectively not retained,) and why? That's a homework question for you. Your answer should not include the words "Too-big-to-fail," "cronyism," "democrat," "republican," or even "congress." Your answer should include words such as "reserve currency," "debt," "austerity," "trade deficit," "recession" and "depression," (those last two correctly used please.)

Don't post here, but please do educate yourself. The bailout was for the 99%, not the 1%.

[Welding Engineer]

I never said anything about educating someone on credit swaps...And I am not anti-capitalism. In fact, my last post reads a lot like yours(shuneyboy68), working responsible capitalism. Please read my post about the trillions of dollars that changed hands, much of it going oversees and to world banks. This all happened behind the scenes and got minimal coverage. Why? Because the media is also part of the mega corporate conglomerate that would rather shift attention toward social events, or quasi-political movements that have almost no impact on our lives while pulling all of the strings behind the scenes.

That's because the average American can understand the Kardashians, the average American can not comprehend what it would mean for the US to loose the dollar as the at large reserve currency of the world.

Just you wait till we have to exchange our POS currency to a basket equivalent to buy foreign oil.

[AbRKnight]

That's because the average American can understand the Kardashians, the average American can not comprehend what it would mean for the US to loose the dollar as the at large reserve currency of the world.

Just you wait till we have to exchange our POS currency to a basket equivalent to buy foreign oil.

That's what we should all be afraid of. Unfortunately I don't understand how making/spending more dollars and shipping them out to world banks and foreign entities strengthens the dollar. Do you? I have done a little homework already but everywhere I have looked says those actions devalue the dollar in the short and long term. I am genuinely interested to hear how it actually strengthens the dollar.

[zilla 2.0]

"The Koch brothers didn't give financial backing until AFTER the tea party was a national grass roots movement. Do your homework, you media sheep."


Too funny. Repeat after me, IT WAS NEVER A GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENT. Within a few weeks Fox News was pumping this movement up and Sean Hannity for the most part turned his show over to Tea Party recruitment. The Koch brothers within a year were shelling millions into the Tea Party. So explain to me, where is the grass roots part?

I don't care what anyone has as their political beliefs, but at least have the integrity to tell the truth.

[Welding Engineer]

I didn't say anything about increasing or retaining the current dollar's value. The dollar will continue to decrease in value pretty much regardless of what anybody does. This is a seperate issue albeit related, to the dollars status as the majority reserve currency used by other countries. In order to remain the reserve currency, other countries must maintain there faith in the US economy, we maintained faith in US economy by straightening up balance sheets across the globe. The large wall st. banks must be fed dollars and must remain happy as they control the trillions of dollars at stake in the different markets, stock, derivatives, etc...

The dollar's gradual and predictable decline in value is fine. A bunch of banks that control 60 trillion dollars of derivative contracts going tits up is not fine and would rock the entire financial system.

[Shauneyboy68]

Too funny. Repeat after me, IT WAS NEVER A GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENT. Within a few weeks Fox News was pumping this movement up and Sean Hannity for the most part turned his show over to Tea Party recruitment. The Koch brothers within a year were shelling millions into the Tea Party. So explain to me, where is the grass roots part?

I don't care what anyone has as their political beliefs, but at least have the integrity to tell the truth.

But first there had to be a movement for Hannity and Fox News to talk about.

Game Over

Thanks for Playing!

[AbRKnight]

You said " Americans cant comprehend what it would mean for the US to loose the dollar as the at large reserve currency of the world." (pretty sure it's already not as it shares that title, see: euro, oil, commodities, and gold).

You follow this up with "The dollar's gradual and predictable decline in value is fine." Huh? It is?

I think what you meant by reserve currency is the fact that oil is traded in dollars. Changing that would be disastrous. One thing impeding that dollar crushing change is the fact that China holds so much U.S. debt(in dollars). If we do the work for them by devaluing the dollar, the movement away from the dollar will be hastened and we can start a new conversation on how long the amero will last.

[zilla 2.0]

But first there had to be a movement for Hannity and Fox News to talk about.

Game Over

Thanks for Playing!

Wow, game over that's all you have huh? If you think this "movement" would have made it past 2010 without Fox and Koch you are fooling yourself. I mean you need to motivate all those blue hairs with heavy signs somehow.

[Welding Engineer]

You said " Americans cant comprehend what it would mean for the US to loose the dollar as the at large reserve currency of the world." (pretty sure it's already not as it shares that title, see: euro, oil, commodities, and gold).

You follow this up with "The dollar's gradual and predictable decline in value is fine." Huh? It is?

I think what you meant by reserve currency is the fact that oil is traded in dollars. Changing that would be disastrous. One thing impeding that dollar crushing change is the fact that China holds so much U.S. debt(in dollars). If we do the work for them by devaluing the dollar, the movement away from the dollar will be hastened and we can start a new conversation on how long the amero will last.

You are confusing the two issues.

The dollar made up 59% of the composition of official foreign exchange reserves in 1995 today it makes up 61%.
http://www.imf.org/external/np/sta/cofer/eng/cofer.pdf
The dollar has essentially stayed at the same percentage of reserve currency levels. This is what we are trying to maintain.

The value of the dollar is about 30% less over the same time frame.
http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

Two different things.

The decline of the dollar is fine as long as it is known and predictable and really has no direct bearing on reserve currency status.

[Welding Engineer]

You said " Americans cant comprehend what it would mean for the US to loose the dollar as the at large reserve currency of the world." (pretty sure it's already not as it shares that title, see: euro, oil, commodities, and gold).

You follow this up with "The dollar's gradual and predictable decline in value is fine." Huh? It is?

I think what you meant by reserve currency is the fact that oil is traded in dollars. Changing that would be disastrous. One thing impeding that dollar crushing change is the fact that China holds so much U.S. debt(in dollars). If we do the work for them by devaluing the dollar, the movement away from the dollar will be hastened and we can start a new conversation on how long the amero will last.

Oil is valued in dollars but it is really bought with exchange currencies. Of which the dollar is the predominant one.

It's not the value of the dollar that is important, it is how the US economy is perceived and interacts with the rest of the world that is important. US sovereign debt is only important to the point of how it affects the economy. Realistically we could take on trillions more debt and still have the world's best economy at this point in time.

[Shauneyboy68]

Wow, game over that's all you have huh? If you think this "movement" would have made it past 2010 without Fox and Koch you are fooling yourself. I mean you need to motivate all those blue hairs with heavy signs somehow.

The difference between you and I, Zilla, is that where my argument is based in logic, yours is based on a hunch you've yet to substantiate. I guess I can't blame you; my girlfriend makes decisions and forms opinions based on her woman's intuition all the time, too.

[zilla 2.0]

The difference between you and I, Zilla, is that where my argument is based in logic, yours is based on a hunch you've yet to substantiate. I guess I can't blame you; my girlfriend makes decisions and forms opinions based on her woman's intuition all the time, too.

HA, logic as you like to see it in your very limited world view. You are a true ideologue and represent what is bad about our current situation in the USA.

Glad to hear you have a girlfriend. You both excited about prom in the Spring?

[Mich97c]

I thought the tea party was started by Dick Armey and his superpac Freedom Works?

[Shauneyboy68]

No, it was started by Dick Cheney and his Halliburton stormtroopers.

[Mich97c]

Realistically we could take on trillions more debt and still have the world's best economy at this point in time.

Plus we have some of the lowest personal tax rates in our history - who wants to go shopping!

[Shauneyboy68]

Plus we have some of the lowest personal tax rates in our history - who wants to go shopping!

Whoa! What's your source for this assertion? Remind me, what was the top tier income tax in 1919?

[Mich97c]

Whoa! What's your source for this assertion? Remind me, what was the top tier income tax in 1919?

I believe top end rate was over 70% (it's currently at 35%), this is just off the top of my head from some presentations made by money managers - I'm not looking for a source right now it was more of a joke.

[Welding Engineer]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/03/acorn-officials-scramble-firing-workers-and-shredding-documents-after-exposed/

Acorn shredding documents? Say it isn't so.........

[Buzz]

Here's my thoughts on some of what's at the root of the OWS movement. First, I want to explain a couple of the key points.

The Credit Default Swap – a derivative is used as a way for banks to keep the flow of money flowing smoothly. And know that banks must only hold investment grade securities, and have in reserves one dollar for every eight invested. So say, the banker from Wolverine Bank just invested $10m into triple A Apple bonds. So he calls up Wolverine Insurance and says “I’ll pay you $50,000 over the next five years”. But should my Apple bonds blow up, then you’ll pay me $10m, deal? If that deal goes through, he essentially has a $10m policy on his Apple bonds, so now that bank can tell the regulators his $10m is insured, and furthermore don’t count that $10m as being invested. Now, he has $10m extra to lend out, and the insurer has 50 grand coming basically for nothing. I think this is a great scheme, but it was intended to work only with top of the line securities, like an Apple Bond.

The problem with the CDS is that it’s not regulated. So, financial marketers can write their own story and are able invest gobs of money into very low grade, but high yielding 123bucknut bonds and count that money as not being invested. The Naked CDS has people from say ABC Bank insuring mortgage bonds from XYZ Bank’s portfolio. AIG had this market years ago. They didn’t even have to prove they could even cover the $10m or whatever they were on the hook for. Why? It’s because of a law called the Commodities Future Modernization Act which deregulated the CDS, and the McCarran-Ferguson Act, an exemption for the Insurance industry from the Sherman Antitrust Act which deregulates insurance companies.

The Glass-Steagal Act created during the Depression prohibited banks, brokerages, and insurance companies from commingling funds and acting like one another was repealed in 1999 and the Gramm-Leach Act was created.

So AIG started lending stocks to banks for a fee, then investing said fee into AAA CMOs heavily weighted in say, $300,000 mortgages from people making 40 grand a year. In an act of collusion, and a fee these crappy bonds were labeled AAA, and therefore banks didn’t have to count funds invested there as really being invested. Meanwhile, the stocks AIG lent out to banks was made possible because AIG sells Annuities and Life products to millions of people worldwide.

What’s the underlying product in Annuities? Stocks. When banks like Lehman went to return the Stocks back to AIG, and ask for their paper, AIG said what money. We gambled y'alls money on CMOs and lost ONE THOUSAND MILLION. Banks demanded, so AIG had to raid the nest eggs of Annuity holders and sell off stocks to cover. That wasn’t enough. So the government stepped in with a bailout.

Nearly everyone on WS gambled on CMOs, but the street’s risk was supposedly transferred to AIG courtesy of the CDS deals. Now stocks prices are falling like a stack of shit, and the world is losing gobs of fucking money. Freddie and Fannie, the biggest buyers of mortgages on the secondary market is at risk of defaulting to the Chinese. So here comes the government takeover, and the mutha-fucking TARP.

This is only a fraction of what happened to create the mess we’re in as a country right now. But it took cooperation from governmental agencies, federal agencies, the fed, the private sector, and the government itself to put this bull shit together. THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL GREED. And somebody has to go to the pokey for this nonsense.

10% of protesters are aware of this. It is my belief that no one wants to make demands, until some of the culprits start pointing fingers at each other and start revealing things no one knows anything about yet.

[Welding Engineer]

...

This is only a fraction of what happened to create the mess we’re in as a country right now. But it took cooperation from governmental agencies, federal agencies, the fed, the private sector, and the government itself to put this bull shit together. THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL GREED. And somebody has to go to the pokey for this nonsense.

10% of protesters are aware of this. It is my belief that no one wants to make demands, until some of the culprits start pointing fingers at each other and start revealing things no one knows anything about yet.

There really isn't anything wrong with a credit default swap, it should be legal, it is great way to hedge and alleviate risk for your financial products. What should not be allowed is the "naked credit default swap." (Naked meaing the equivalent of, you don't have to have a vested interest in the subject to receive an insurance policy on it, if you correlated CDS's to insurance.)

The naked credit default swap is straight up speculating. It's like me taking out an insurance policy on a twice onvicted DWI driver's vehicle when I'm the bartender. I just wait for the DWI guy to have an accident and I collect the insurance money on the vehicle even though I had no vested interest outside of the premiums I paid. (The comparison to me being the bartender is accurate for some of the positions these companies were in that took out Naked CDS's too, reason why they took them out.)

The naked credit default swap is the real root of the problems you alluded too, it is also still legal. Nobody is going to go to the "pokey." What they did was mostly all legal. Corporate America is 3 steps ahead of the regulator, past, present, and future.

If you want to do some good start out with reviving the legislation that would make the naked credit default swap illegal. It really serves no legitimate purpose in business. It's straight up gambling.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-977

[Buzz]

There really isn't anything wrong with a credit default swap, it should be legal, it is great way to hedge and alleviate risk for your financial products. What should not be allowed is the "naked credit default swap." (Naked meaing the equivalent of, you don't have to have a vested interest in the subject to receive an insurance policy on it, if you correlated CDS's to insurance.)

The naked credit default swap is straight up speculating. It's like me taking out an insurance policy on a twice onvicted DWI driver's vehicle when I'm the bartender. I just wait for the DWI guy to have an accident and I collect the insurance money on the vehicle even though I had no vested interest outside of the premiums I paid. (The comparison to me being the bartender is accurate for some of the positions these companies were in that took out Naked CDS's too, reason why they took them out.)

The naked credit default swap is the real root of the problems you alluded too, it is also still legal. Nobody is going to go to the "pokey." What they did was mostly all legal. Corporate America is 3 steps ahead of the regulator, past, present, and future.

If you want to do some good start out with reviving the legislation that would make the naked credit default swap illegal. It really serves no legitimate purpose in business. It's straight up gambling.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-977

I never said anything about the CDS, naked or whatnot being illegal. The problem with it is that it's UNREGULATED. AIG issued billions in CDS policies to cover Wall street's worthless paper in mortgage bonds bets. The Credit Default Swaps were used as a ponzi scheme.

The money banks must keep in reserves can be invested, but only in extremely safe, insured securities, like Treasury Bills. But they only pay 1% in interest. But CMOs pay 8,9,10% in interest. So bankers paid the rating agencies to upgrade their bets in CMOs from crap to AAA, and used the CDS as so-called insurance to put icing on the cake.

AIG never had money set aside to cover its policies, it simply drew up the policies, collected the premiums and gambled said funds into the same crap it insured Wall street against, and lost THREE THOUSAND MILLION DOLLARS in the process. What do you call an unfunded insurance policy? A SCAM. AIG was never intending to cover their end of the bargain, it was just a money grab and the CDS was used as a means to the end.

When you mix regulated products and industries, like bonds and investment banks, with the unregulated, like the CDS and insurance companies, you might as well be mixing compressed fuel and flame...cause eventually it's all going to explode.

[Mich97c]

I never said anything about the CDS, naked or whatnot being illegal. The problem with it is that it's UNREGULATED.

When you mix regulated products and industries, like bonds and investment banks, with the unregulated, like the CDS and insurance companies, you might as well be mixing compressed fuel and flame...cause eventually it's all going to explode.

You hit the nail on the head. I remember in 2006 watching an interview with Amy Brinkley, then the Chief of Risk at BofA. She said she had no idea how much leverage there was in the system "What the fuck!" How can we let a shadow banking industry develop and not be aware the risk it posses to our fractional banking system. Yes cds and later their counterparts the CDO were designed as hedging instruments, but with no watchdog or rules to follow it's the wild west were greed and deception rule. The SEC was to stupid to understand how these worked and no cared cause of the money they were making. But all good things come to an end and in this case, we the taxpayer have to pay.

When it comes to the NYSE, it's so regulated that Wall Street has to try real hard to screw you when you trade stocks, but with no exchange for bonds and these more exotic securities, all bets are off.

[wolverine]

Atta boy Revelli.

AbrKnight, Buzz:

You guys support this so-called "movement," right? You presume to educate us on credit swaps, when even economists struggle on how to put the concept into words.

The President is correct: the occupiers are expressing frustration. But they're also a mob, an incoherent mass of malcontents with a total disregard for the law. The mob mentality is anti-American. Early patriots decried "democracy," using the term "democrat" as a pejorative for those who would seek to usher in mob rule. Which is exactly what the occupiers are doing. "Liberty Park," or whatever they're calling it, is private property. The fact that the police fails to expel them is a travesty. It's no different than if 50 unwanted visitors threw tents up in your front lawn and the police did nothing to remove them: mob rule.

I got to hand it to them; the left played these morons like a fiddle. Instead of identifying the real root of the problem, they’ve been hoodwinked into engaging in some half-baked class warfare. If there's anything to be upset at, it's our government, our politicians. It’s our eco-religion. I agree that "corporate communism" is a very real danger to our nation, but the only reason it's allowed to exist and have such an influence is because of the inordinate amount of power, responsibility, and influence we’ve ceded to Washington. The Constitution wasn’t designed this way, but we’ve run an end-around on the thing, while at the same time allowing hubristic notions of progressivism, utopianism, and American Expectionalism creep in. We’re being led around by the nose with these ideals. And it’s killing us.

People are pissed at Capitalism, when they should be pissed at Government. Capitalism didn’t fail, we failed Capitalism. Get pissed at the Federal Government, a bloated byzantine body whose masters pass laws on the people that don’t apply to themselves. Get pissed at it for failing at it’s most sacred duty, defending national integrity, and, something that blows my mind, preventing the states from stepping in where the government has failed. Get pissed at the free-trade philosopher kings who opened our empire up to the tigers of Asia, allowing them to rape and pillage our economy straight into post-industrialism (Fact: the once mighty British empire embraced “free-trade” in the 19th century. What happened? America surged ahead. America embraced free-trade in the 20th century. What happened? China surges ahead).

So we’ve got these angry children railing against corporate America, the last wealth generator left. And what’s their answer? More government.

BEST POST EVER (on this subject)