obama reaching out to taliban

[rickyleach]

what is the deal with Obama , is he going to meet with the taliban and have tea, what the hell is going on here..

[wolverine]

good post rick...but can we keep this open to M football only there is a spot for ranys and politics down the page

[Wolvrin704]

The non-UM football posts in the UM football section is starting to get old. Mods would be able to move these things quickly....

But since the topic is here I quite agree. What are they thinking? Everytime I turn around they want to talk to one of our enemies; Iran, Taliban, North Korea and the list just goes on. Its one thing to open up dialogue through back door channels. But they're doing it on open channels at the highest levels. Don't they understand that these people hate us and don't respect us. Anything they say or promise can be taken with a grain of salt because they see no problem with lying to an enemy.

[Mike Furley]

its to be expected.

this (and the attrocious handling of the economy these first six weeks) is what happens when the national media gives one of the two main candidates for president a complete pass during the campaign, and the uninformed public promotes the least qualified (or more accurately, the least experienced) person to the white house.

think about it. he's never run any type of business. his stewardship of the Annenburg Project to fix Chicago's public schools was an unmitigated failure.

he was an instructor at the University of Chicago. he was never asked (to my knowledge) why he claimed to be a professor when he never reached that status. there is a difference for the walmart fans on this board.

he was a community organizer for ACORN - which has been investigated by the Justice Dept in multiple states for voter fraud.

he was a state senator where he was mostly known for casting votes as present.

he was a united states senator for less than 200 days before embarking full time to run for president.

he has no real experience.

now i do credit the man for running a succesful campaign - but look who he beat. a woman (no woman has ever been elected president) with a lot of baggage, and a geriatric who did not have the support of the base of his party.

the man can deliver a heck of a speech....so long as David Axelrod writes them and he has functioning teleprompters.

Dems and Reps can agree to disagree on politics and policy. I get that you think he has the right solutions, and you get that I think he has the wrong solutions. What we shouldn't disagree about is this man's lack of experience.

we are currently paying the price economically for his naivety with his daily proposals and utterances nosediving the stock market.

I pray we don't pay an equally high cost for his naivety in foreign policy.

this country has had one true ally for over 100 years - England. He just managed to snub the Prime Minister by presenting him with an official gift of 25 dvd's.

he needs to change his advisors ASAP. The current ones are not helping him get out of the gate.

[Buzz]

its to be expected.

this (and the attrocious handling of the economy these first six weeks) is what happens when the national media gives one of the two main candidates for president a complete pass during the campaign, and the uninformed public promotes the least qualified (or more accurately, the least experienced) person to the white house.

I think your entire post is incredible.....especially the crap I'm quoting here. Let me ask you, do you think Bush did a good job as president?

[Mike Furley]

I think your entire post is incredible.....especially the crap I'm quoting here. Let me ask you, do you think Bush did a good job as president?

Not particularly, no. In fact, his performance was deemed to be so poor by voters that they elected the most inexperienced candidate to run for office as a result of his performance.

I believe had Al Gore been more personally appealing, and not such an embellisher (i invented the internet), Bush would have been trounced after the economic performance of Clinton the previous 8 years. Gore was more qualified than Bush.

What is so incredible about my post? I didn't state anything about his experience (or lack thereof) that wasn't true. If you disagree with my interpretation or analysis of the facts, please enlighten me.

As to the part about him getting a pass from the national media, I think that too is unimpeacheable. When Saturday Night Live does a parody of the news media fawning all over Obama, it's done so because there is truth in it. If there was no truth in it, the skit would have been non-sensical. MSNBC had to actually demote their anchors during the campaign due to their lack of objectivity.

Aside from Fox News, the Wall St Journal, and Rush Limbaugh, the rest of the media was firmly in Obama's camp (NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, etc)

In fairness to Bush, he got dealt a lousy hand with the 9/11 attacks, and a Cat-5 hurricane wiping out a city.
In fairness to Obama he also got dealt a lousy hand with the recession he inherited. That he's turning the recession into a depression is entirely his doing.

[rickyleach]

mike YOUR SHMOKIN,, right on brother.

[RealSchool]

But of course none of you will mention how the Bush admin spoke with our enemy in Iraq. That would make you actaully know what the hell you are talking about or for once objective.

Such hypocrites.

[RealSchool]

Not particularly, no. In fact, his performance was deemed to be so poor by voters that they elected the most inexperienced candidate to run for office as a result of his performance.

I believe had Al Gore been more personally appealing, and not such an embellisher (i invented the internet), Bush would have been trounced after the economic performance of Clinton the previous 8 years. Gore was more qualified than Bush.

What is so incredible about my post? I didn't state anything about his experience (or lack thereof) that wasn't true. If you disagree with my interpretation or analysis of the facts, please enlighten me.

As to the part about him getting a pass from the national media, I think that too is unimpeacheable. When Saturday Night Live does a parody of the news media fawning all over Obama, it's done so because there is truth in it. If there was no truth in it, the skit would have been non-sensical. MSNBC had to actually demote their anchors during the campaign due to their lack of objectivity.

Aside from Fox News, the Wall St Journal, and Rush Limbaugh, the rest of the media was firmly in Obama's camp (NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, etc)

In fairness to Bush, he got dealt a lousy hand with the 9/11 attacks, and a Cat-5 hurricane wiping out a city.
In fairness to Obama he also got dealt a lousy hand with the recession he inherited. That he's turning the recession into a depression is entirely his doing.


Got dealt a lousy hand, are you fucking serious? That piece of shit Bush sat on information and did nothing allowing 9-11 to happen. When he should have been actually doing his job he sat in Crawford taking vaction day after vacation day. The blood and death of over 4,000 Americans is firmly in Bush's hands.

[UM4life]

Got dealt a lousy hand, are you fucking serious? That piece of shit Bush sat on information and did nothing allowing 9-11 to happen. When he should have been actually doing his job he sat in Crawford taking vaction day after vacation day. The blood and death of over 4,000 Americans is firmly in Bush's hands.


Please, get your info from someone other then Michael Moore. Al Gore was informed of Bin Laden by Oliver North in a Senate meeting years before Sept 11th. North states Bin Laden was the US greatest threat so tell me, what did Gore and Clinton do about it? Not a damn thing.

But if were going to point fingers why did Clinton do nothing after the USS Cole and the multiple US Embassy bombings, the attempt on the Washington Monument and the first WTC bombing? Why did Clinton ignore the UN's plea to do something about Saddam who was refusing to let UN officials into Iraq after Desert Storm as per his surrender agreement?

And why is Obama letting the planners of the USS Cole bombing go free?

And why is Obama hell bant on "Nationalizing" every aspect of free enterpise in this country? Banks, Auto companies, Health Care, power, limiting free speech on the radio... whats next? Families? Thats socialism and under it, threads like this wont exist because the government wont let it.

[RealSchool]

Please, get your info from someone other then Michael Moore. Al Gore was informed of Bin Laden by Oliver North in a Senate meeting years before Sept 11th. North states Bin Laden was the US greatest threat so tell me, what did Gore and Clinton do about it? Not a damn thing.

But if were going to point fingers why did Clinton do nothing after the USS Cole and the multiple US Embassy bombings, the attempt on the Washington Monument and the first WTC bombing? Why did Clinton ignore the UN's plea to do something about Saddam who was refusing to let UN officials into Iraq after Desert Storm as per his surrender agreement?

And why is Obama letting the planners of the USS Cole bombing go free?

And why is Obama hell bant on "Nationalizing" every aspect of free enterpise in this country? Banks, Auto companies, Health Care, power, limiting free speech on the radio... whats next? Families? Thats socialism and under it, threads like this wont exist because the government wont let it.

If Republicans cared about this country they would have let Clinton do his job instead of going after him for blow jobs. Clinton was bad for this country looking back at it now, but at least (unlike yourself) I can say this about a member of my party. Republicans care more about power then doing what is right for this country.

And let us not forget the massive bailouts began under Bush. You failed to mention that hypocrite.

[rickyleach]

I dont recall anyone on this board saying george was outstanding, , atleast obama wants a playoff for college football, i wonder if we can pass that before he goes and has coffee and doughnuts with the taliban..

[RealSchool]

I dont recall anyone on this board saying george was outstanding, , atleast obama wants a playoff for college football, i wonder if we can pass that before he goes and has coffee and doughnuts with the taliban..

But I sure do recall 8 years of not being able to say anything bad about Bush without being labeled unamerican. Obama is fair game however for you true Americans.

[Mike Furley]

Real School (or any other person who took umbrage with my post) -

For the sake of argument, let's say I accept all of your premises.

i.e. that Bush willingly sat on info that could have prevented 9/11, that Republicans are only interested in power, that Republicans treated any criticism of Bush as un-american, that my criticism of Obama indicates a hypocrasy by me, etc.

If all of that is true, how does that in any way negate my original position that Obama is terribly inexperienced?

I am not interested in a pissing match. This is a serious dialogue and I apologize for my tone in the original post being inflamed. I'd like this to be a dispassionate and constructive experience from this point forward.

Do you agree or disagree with my assertion that Obama is inexperienced? If you disagree, why am I wrong?

Do you agree with my assertion regarding experience but disagree with my conclusions? i.e. you agree he is terribly inexperienced but his actions are not indicative of a naivety in matters of fiscal and foreign policy.

If you believe his actions are not indicative of a naivety, why are his actions producing such negative reactions in the economy and in foreign relations?

Do you disagree with my assertion that there have been negative reactions in the economy and in foreign relations?

[bigboyBlue]

Furley,

I'll agree Obama was inexperienced compared to some of the other candidates, but he is smart and analytical, something we haven't had in the White House for a long time. I'll take it. The negativity is really a sign of the times overall, and people fail to realise he cannot turn a tailspin of this magnitude around in 2 months.

Its a very similar situation to RRod: at some point, we will have to stop blaming the previous administration/coaching staff and start evaluating the performance on the field as a product of the new staff. I think he gets and deserves a year before judgement, but he (or any leader) needs to have a thick skin now to do what he and his teams think right. Presidents are not financial, healthcare or automotive geniuses; their power lies in being able to surround themselves by smart people who know what they're talking about, and coming up with the best solution possible. I am not that person, so my thinking his decisions stink (which I don't) bears little weight, as they should.

Now do I think throwing a ton of money at the system helps? Not necessarily. As some others have said, let Capitalism have its way, and I think the ideal thing to do was to give these billions to the people, let them spend as they choose and let that decide who survives or falls. The problem is we don't have the time to let that money trickle down to the Banks and the Auto companies. And ultimately Capitalism will have its way; you cannot survive by selling a bad product, or one for which a market doesn't exist.

So, if he wants to meet the Taliban so be it, hell Reagan gave them missiles, this is waaaay more harmless and constructive than that.

Ok, this post has been all over the place, sunday coffee time :).

[Mike Furley]

BBB-

I don't necessarily dismiss out of hand as a mistake any new approach by Obama regarding the Taliban.

My beef is with him or his administration floating the idea of a policy change via the media. It's a bad way to do it. I fear it will cause our enemies to view him and America as weak, and when we are viewed that way, our enemies become emboldened to attack us or our interests.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall Petraeus' strategy of working with the Sunnis in Iraq being revealed until after it had already been shown to be successfull. The tide had turned by the time it hit our papers. Floating the trial balloon with the Taliban is like RR saying he's going to play a soft zone defense before the game is even played, and then doing it in the game.

I agree with you regarding Obama being a smart and analytical person, and being more so of one than Bush was. Hopefully that translates to positive outcomes for this country as he gains experience.

[Buzz]

Not particularly, no. In fact, his performance was deemed to be so poor by voters that they elected the most inexperienced candidate to run for office as a result of his performance.

I believe had Al Gore been more personally appealing, and not such an embellisher (i invented the internet), Bush would have been trounced after the economic performance of Clinton the previous 8 years. Gore was more qualified than Bush.

What is so incredible about my post? I didn't state anything about his experience (or lack thereof) that wasn't true. If you disagree with my interpretation or analysis of the facts, please enlighten me.

As to the part about him getting a pass from the national media, I think that too is unimpeacheable. When Saturday Night Live does a parody of the news media fawning all over Obama, it's done so because there is truth in it. If there was no truth in it, the skit would have been non-sensical. MSNBC had to actually demote their anchors during the campaign due to their lack of objectivity.

Aside from Fox News, the Wall St Journal, and Rush Limbaugh, the rest of the media was firmly in Obama's camp (NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, etc)

In fairness to Bush, he got dealt a lousy hand with the 9/11 attacks, and a Cat-5 hurricane wiping out a city.
In fairness to Obama he also got dealt a lousy hand with the recession he inherited. That he's turning the recession into a depression is entirely his doing.

President Obama doesn’t have a portfolio of accomplishments or much experience in holding a public office. But he’s smart enough to understand that the challenges of this time won’t be handled in six weeks or six months. That’s why this recovery bill is stacked with infrastructure spending, which is intended to rebuild our foundation, so economic growth is sustainable. The financial bailout was a pro free-market move. It wasn’t intended to save Bank of America, or any other bank. The intentions were to help the intermediaries serve their purpose…create money, and profit from said creation. He also understands that tax cuts and rebate checks are only a small ingredient to create a stimulant of this size. This is why this bill includes more.

Nothing can be accomplished on a large scale by one person, it is the leverage of people, time, and resources that results in big things, that’s why the president chose an experienced staff to help administer this country.

The president also understands diplomacy. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan can’t be won with only bullets, and besides, the soldiers on the ground never had a clear cut mission, it was only win, kill the terrorists. General Petraeus had an opportunity to tell congress what was the military’s mission, explained for Iraq. He couldn’t do it, but he knows war fighting like the back of his hand. He only evaded the question out of respect for the inept president Bush. Bush thought the war was over after we dismantled the Iraqi Army….little did he know that it was only the beginning. At this time, the military has a clear cut mission, a start and end date of completion, more goals and objectives are soon to follow.

President Obama didn’t have the experience prior to running for office, but now that he’s in office, he’s shown that he has what it takes. I’m not saying that everything that his administration has done thus far will work, but I am saying that the administration is in the vicinity, they’re on the block of being right.

As far as the media favoritism….when you’re doing all the right things necessary to be successful, people are going to notice, everybody likes a winner....even you. When you’re wrong…you’re going to get embarrassed, this is the way the idiot republicans are feeling right now.

"In fairness to Bush, he got dealt a lousy hand with the 9/11 attacks" That is a complete cop-out.....Bush saw his highest approval rating during that time. Don't start making excuses for the guy...while pointing the finger at someone else.

[Mike Furley]

"In fairness to Bush, he got dealt a lousy hand with the 9/11 attacks" That is a complete cop-out.....Bush saw his highest approval rating during that time. Don't start making excuses for the guy...while pointing the finger at someone else.


All I meant by that statement is that he campaigned in 2000 as being a "Compassionate Conservative" whose focus was on education reform, allowing religious charities to receive federal funding, expanding free trade, etc.

When 9/11 happened, it changed the entire focus and agenda of his administration. Perhaps, had his administration not had such tunnel vision in combatting islamist terrorism, Iraq would never have happened. Iraq is what largely gutted his approval ratings

[Frank Rizzo]

Wait a year,then tell me where Obama bin laden has this country..not to mention the election was a joke.With the money paid by certain wealthy celebs.Chris Rock could have gotten elected for fucks sakes.......dumbass Democrats,the answer isnt steal from the rich,and give to the lazy, nor is it smart to just fire up the ole printing presses..good luck with ur president.P.S. welcome to the united states of russia......lol

[bigboyBlue]

BBB-

I don't necessarily dismiss out of hand as a mistake any new approach by Obama regarding the Taliban.

My beef is with him or his administration floating the idea of a policy change via the media. It's a bad way to do it. I fear it will cause our enemies to view him and America as weak, and when we are viewed that way, our enemies become emboldened to attack us or our interests.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall Petraeus' strategy of working with the Sunnis in Iraq being revealed until after it had already been shown to be successfull. The tide had turned by the time it hit our papers. Floating the trial balloon with the Taliban is like RR saying he's going to play a soft zone defense before the game is even played, and then doing it in the game.

I agree with you regarding Obama being a smart and analytical person, and being more so of one than Bush was. Hopefully that translates to positive outcomes for this country as he gains experience.

May not be the best way Furley, consider the alternative if he was secretly implementing the Taliban policy change behind closed doors, can you imagine the shit that would hit the fan if it ever got out? Some folks can't see beyond his middle name, imagine how they would react if they discovered he was secretly holding 'peace' talks with them? Big no no, the conspiracy theories would be too easy. A public discourse with the entire world listening is way safer, and somewhat ballsy IMHO.

[chriswebber]

Well, let's look at the bright side of Obama. By the time he's done with office, I'll ...
1. be able to afford a vacation house since the market will be cheap.
2. Stocks should be really low also, so everyone can invest.
3. My inheritance stock will be worthless, so I can buy more and take hostile control of the corporation.
4. The White house will have a basketball court.
5. The British will be done watching their 25 DVDs and want more.
6. We'll have more jobs because our dollar will be worth less, so other companies will outsource their labor here.
7. Universal Healthcare will come, so I can quit my real job and become a surf instructor on Lake St. Clair.
8. Used cars should appreciate in value, once the big 3 go out.

Feel free to add.:eek:

[Mich Fan in Cbus]

Well, let's look at the bright side of Obama. By the time he's done with office, I'll ...
1. be able to afford a vacation house since the market will be cheap.
2. Stocks should be really low also, so everyone can invest.
3. My inheritance stock will be worthless, so I can buy more and take hostile control of the corporation.
4. The White house will have a basketball court.
5. The British will be done watching their 25 DVDs and want more.
6. We'll have more jobs because our dollar will be worth less, so other companies will outsource their labor here.
7. Universal Healthcare will come, so I can quit my real job and become a surf instructor on Lake St. Clair.
8. Used cars should appreciate in value, once the big 3 go out.

Feel free to add.:eek:


That is funny.. best post you have EVER had.

[osusteve]

The fact that we now have to negotiate with the Taliban reveals the disasters that were the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions orchestrated by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the other neocons in the previous adminstration.

Just as Sadaam kept the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds in their respective places (yes, he did so by being a brutal dictator), the Taliban accomplished the same in Afghanistan. The Taliban obliterated the poppy fields, which are now blooming all over the country as we speak.

Pakistan is a far greater concern...they have nuclear weapons.

[Don Unverferth]

its to be expected.

this (and the attrocious handling of the economy these first six weeks) is what happens when the national media gives one of the two main candidates for president a complete pass during the campaign, and the uninformed public promotes the least qualified (or more accurately, the least experienced) person to the white house.

think about it. he's never run any type of business. his stewardship of the Annenburg Project to fix Chicago's public schools was an unmitigated failure.

he was an instructor at the University of Chicago. he was never asked (to my knowledge) why he claimed to be a professor when he never reached that status. there is a difference for the walmart fans on this board.

he was a community organizer for ACORN - which has been investigated by the Justice Dept in multiple states for voter fraud.

he was a state senator where he was mostly known for casting votes as present.

he was a united states senator for less than 200 days before embarking full time to run for president.

he has no real experience.

now i do credit the man for running a succesful campaign - but look who he beat. a woman (no woman has ever been elected president) with a lot of baggage, and a geriatric who did not have the support of the base of his party.

the man can deliver a heck of a speech....so long as David Axelrod writes them and he has functioning teleprompters.

Dems and Reps can agree to disagree on politics and policy. I get that you think he has the right solutions, and you get that I think he has the wrong solutions. What we shouldn't disagree about is this man's lack of experience.

we are currently paying the price economically for his naivety with his daily proposals and utterances nosediving the stock market.

I pray we don't pay an equally high cost for his naivety in foreign policy.

this country has had one true ally for over 100 years - England. He just managed to snub the Prime Minister by presenting him with an official gift of 25 dvd's.

he needs to change his advisors ASAP. The current ones are not helping him get out of the gate.

Dial the clock back to 1960 and put the name Kennedy in place of Obama. Except for the DVD's of course.

[Mike Furley]

i started a thread in the politics section where this discussion can be continued. lets all avoid further posts here so it can die out of the football forum.

[rickyleach]

webster, great post man , i guess we really can agree on things , atleast the important ones. dont forget all the great job openings at kfc..

[Frank Rizzo]

....Baboonism......lol

[chriswebber]

Another benefit of Obama's presidency is being able to avoid the death tax. I mean the portfolio of the g-rents is so watered down at this point, they are bypassing the parents hoping it comes back for my retirement. Go Obama Go. Now what do I do with my part of 40,000 shares in $1 stock? :o (was above $50 in 2005, paying dividends) Thanks Obama! I get stock with NO TAX!

[Mike Furley]

May not be the best way Furley, consider the alternative if he was secretly implementing the Taliban policy change behind closed doors, can you imagine the shit that would hit the fan if it ever got out? Some folks can't see beyond his middle name, imagine how they would react if they discovered he was secretly holding 'peace' talks with them? Big no no, the conspiracy theories would be too easy. A public discourse with the entire world listening is way safer, and somewhat ballsy IMHO.

This quote was in response to my assertion that Obama's public announcement of his willingness to sit down with our enemy was one of naivety born from his inexperience and dangerous in that our enemies may view this as a sign of weakness.

Less than a week later Russia is pursuing a deal with Cuba and Venezuela to have them host Russian bombers on their soil. Somehow I don't forsee Obama pulling a JFK-esque type response - and apparently neither do the Russians.

[Mike Furley]

And the Taliban have replied to Obama's offer to sit down and have tea & crumpets.....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/01/fbi-issues-alert-on-taliban-threat/

Yes, they reply with "we will attack you in Washington D.C."

[RealSchool]

This quote was in response to my assertion that Obama's public announcement of his willingness to sit down with our enemy was one of naivety born from his inexperience and dangerous in that our enemies may view this as a sign of weakness.

Less than a week later Russia is pursuing a deal with Cuba and Venezuela to have them host Russian bombers on their soil. Somehow I don't forsee Obama pulling a JFK-esque type response - and apparently neither do the Russians.

...and yet you fail to mention all the enemies that the Bush team sat and talked with. Will the hypocrisy ever end with you guys?

[RealSchool]

I don't care about liberal or conversative and all that other crap, but what I do care about is people like you Furley that can't tell the truth.

[Mike Furley]

and yet you fail to mention all the enemies that the Bush team sat and talked with. Will the hypocrisy ever end with you guys?

Well, the original thread was in response to Obama & the Taliban - thus that is what I was commenting on.

As for Bush sitting down with enemies I do have some criticisms. There are two types of enemies: ones who can wipe us out, and ones who can't wipe us out.

Bush sitting down with China & Russia: Neither of us are going to throw down with each other so you have to talk.

Bush sitting down with N. Korea: Big waste of time as it made us look weak to the Iranians. We are paying for that weakness right now.

Obama sitting down with China & Russia: Same deal as Bush

Obama asking to sit down with Iran & the Taliban: an act seen as weak by them.

No hypocrasy, although you love to throw that word out there everytime you have a weak point to make.

Shouldn't you be over in London with the rest of Life's Losers who are there protesting?