Obama fires GM CEO - wtf?

[Mike Furley]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20625.html

Never in my life would I ever have thought I'd see the day when a president of the United States fires the head of a company.

I guess the 21st Century version of the Yugo should be rolling off the lines in no time.

The US Government is worse than the mob. A good lesson has been learned for an entire new generation: Never take any amount of baliout money. Big Brother will bust you out like Sopranos did in the 2nd season to a sporting goods company.

[chriswebber]

No, No, No, media giving obama more credit than due. The GM CEO was on WJR with Paul W. Smith 6 months ago stating he wanted to retire. GM begged him to stay another 6 months. It's basically, incompetent journalist. If anything we should fire Obama.

[RealSchool]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20625.html

Never in my life would I ever have thought I'd see the day when a president of the United States fires the head of a company.

I guess the 21st Century version of the Yugo should be rolling off the lines in no time.

The US Government is worse than the mob. A good lesson has been learned for an entire new generation: Never take any amount of baliout money. Big Brother will bust you out like Sopranos did in the 2nd season to a sporting goods company.

Ok guys this one made my jaw drop. Not good.

[amazinblue]

This is what happens when government gets involved. Unfortunately, what I find difficult to accept is the relative ease with which the financial services industry receives hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars - honestly, with no concessions, and the auto industry gets railroaded for requesting a fraction of that.

If you want my opinion about what the "real, real" problem is with the auto industry, it's that the financial companies that received billions and billions of dollars are holding on to the money and not giving it to people to buy cars. I'm not saying that GM / Ford / Chrysler have perfect product plans, and don't have major issues that need to be addressed (such as the UAW and health care costs) - but, the "root cause" of the auto industry's problems is that the credit markets are not making credit available to potential automobile purchasers.

How many of you have purchased a new vehicle for "cash"? I believe across America, that figure is less than 3%. Unless financing / credit is available for new vehicle purchases, no one will be able to turn around GM - not even Barack Obama.

I can only imagine how bad the housing industry would be if the finanical institutions reduced loans for new / existing homes to the same extent that they have for automobiles.

P.S. I'm wondering if Obama / his officials (car czar) want to take over Toyota, after all - Toyota lost money this past year as well. Hey, I've got an idea - why don't US banks only finance US made cars?

[Wolvrin704]

I am amzed at how much power the Congress and the new administartion has taken over the ecnomy. The left cried for years about the powers that Bush took against actual terrorists. But this hits allot closer to home and will have severe repracusions for decades.

When will it come to the gov't can tell individuals what to do not because its law but because they give us money? I no longer have much trust in the gov't and I especially have no confidence that the gov't is the answer to any of our problems.

[Mike Furley]

I am amzed at how much power the Congress and the new administartion has taken over the ecnomy. The left cried for years about the powers that Bush took against actual terrorists. But this hits allot closer to home and will have severe repracusions for decades.

When will it come to the gov't can tell individuals what to do not because its law but because they give us money? I no longer have much trust in the gov't and I especially have no confidence that the gov't is the answer to any of our problems.

We're being swept down a river that leads to a waterfall into pure socialism/marxism and those of us that know what's ahead are desperately searching for a branch or rock we can grasp onto and save ourselves while the rest of the country either yells "yahoo!" or asks not to be bothered because the currents know more than them.

[GoGreen23]

I was actually thinking about this same thing earlier today. Honestly how much more can the auto companies give up? There wasn't much there to begin with, hence them needed to get part of the bailout in the first place. Just think about how much more our state will suffer if the Big Three (or at least GM and Chrysler) go "out of business."

What would we do then? And I also think it's bs that they have to jump through flaming hoops to get any kind of aid when the insurance/financing companies didn't have to do anything.

What should happen is that the UAW needs to be abolished or they need to make less demands. Unions served a much bigger purpose 50 years ago then they do now. There are other laws in effect to protect the workers in the union's place.

What Obama should have done with the bailout money was give it to the citizen's so they would actually have some cash to spend and help get the economy going again. Put the money in the consumer's hands...

[Wolvrin704]

The biggest question is why is the administration being so tough on GM and Chrsyler but not Wall St or the banks? They've gotten a pittance comapred to them, heck even compared to stupid homeowners buying houses they can't afford.
Lets just hope the UAW remembers all this in 4 years.

[amazinblue]

704,

If GM / Ford / Chrysler survive in some form of what they are today - and IF there is a UAW in four years - then, some of the conversations will be interesting. If the UAW and auto companies survive, they'll be a fraction of their original selves.

And, why have the banks nor received the same scrutiny that the automakers have - perhaps Chris Dodd has some insight to that.

After all - shortly after the US committed to TARP and about 700 billion - AIG and some other financial firms were conducting "lavish" (as described by the media) events and executive retreats / meetings for their leadership teams. And, when the financial firms first appeared in Washington to ask for the TARP monies, I'm pretty sure they took their private jets to DC as well - but, no one even brought that up.

I have an idea. Why doesn't Obama appoint everyone in the financial services industry to cabinet positions. Then, they can admit to having avoided paying taxes all these years, - cough up the additional tax - like Geithner did - and voila - we'll have far more cash in the coffers and we'll be wondering what to do with all the surpluses that will be generated.

[GoDeepHammer]

704,

If GM / Ford / Chrysler survive in some form of what they are today - and IF there is a UAW in four years - then, some of the conversations will be interesting. If the UAW and auto companies survive, they'll be a fraction of their original selves.

And, why have the banks nor received the same scrutiny that the automakers have - perhaps Chris Dodd has some insight to that.

After all - shortly after the US committed to TARP and about 700 billion - AIG and some other financial firms were conducting "lavish" (as described by the media) events and executive retreats / meetings for their leadership teams. And, when the financial firms first appeared in Washington to ask for the TARP monies, I'm pretty sure they took their private jets to DC as well - but, no one even brought that up.

I have an idea. Why doesn't Obama appoint everyone in the financial services industry to cabinet positions. Then, they can admit to having avoided paying taxes all these years, - cough up the additional tax - like Geithner did - and voila - we'll have far more cash in the coffers and we'll be wondering what to do with all the surpluses that will be generated.

I would like to see this as well. I don't understand why you hold the backbone of the American economy's feet to the fire and make them justify their existence. When is that going to happen with banks, wall street or better yet the government? If you want to get the US back, stop foreign aid and all the other hand outs to other countries, until we are back on our feet. Make is so you can't receive government assistance unless you have a clean drug screen. Limit the number of appeals for murders, re-instate the death penalty, and make criminals responsible for their crimes. Get the system back to the hard workers actually get rewarded for working hard and not the it's ok to be average society that we have fallen into.

[RealSchool]

Amazin Blue the pinko wrote:

"I've got an idea - why don't US banks only finance US made cars?"

Sounds like socialism to me.


A better idea is to ask the southern senators why they have a problem with taxpayer money going to US auto industries, when they have given billions in taxpayer money to foreign car companies to setup plants in their states.

[osusteve]

If President Obama can essentially make Rick Waggoner resign as president of GM, he can probably control all future restructuring efforts at the company as well.

What is the endgame? If GM files Chapter 11 bancruptcy (reorganization) would they be able to boot out the UAW? If they file Chapter 7 bankruptcy (liquidation) then the company will simply go away. Why would Obama (a strong defender of unions) want the UAW to be booted out as part of a Chapter 11 filing?

I don't know if many people realize this but when the three leaders of GM, Ford and Chrysler flew to Washington on private jets, the head of the UAW flew to Washington as well in the union's private jet. When the three executives flew back back there the second time on commercial flights, the head of the union again took the union's private jet.

[Mich97c]

This is what happens when government gets involved. Unfortunately, what I find difficult to accept is the relative ease with which the financial services industry receives hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars - honestly, with no concessions, and the auto industry gets railroaded for requesting a fraction of that.

If you want my opinion about what the "real, real" problem is with the auto industry, it's that the financial companies that received billions and billions of dollars are holding on to the money and not giving it to people to buy cars. I'm not saying that GM / Ford / Chrysler have perfect product plans, and don't have major issues that need to be addressed (such as the UAW and health care costs) - but, the "root cause" of the auto industry's problems is that the credit markets are not making credit available to potential automobile purchasers.

How many of you have purchased a new vehicle for "cash"? I believe across America, that figure is less than 3%. Unless financing / credit is available for new vehicle purchases, no one will be able to turn around GM - not even Barack Obama.

I can only imagine how bad the housing industry would be if the finanical institutions reduced loans for new / existing homes to the same extent that they have for automobiles.

P.S. I'm wondering if Obama / his officials (car czar) want to take over Toyota, after all - Toyota lost money this past year as well. Hey, I've got an idea - why don't US banks only finance US made cars?

Actually it was the decrease in demand of "qualified" borrowers. As they feared recession they quit applying for loans. Most of the standards stayed in place but for risker loans (people with credit scores under 620) that financing dried up (as it should).

He did attack the financial industry - by illegally taxing bonsuses. Not that any of those guys deserved it but it's borderline unconsititional.

Banks won't make loans to GM, Ford or Chysler. Loans are expected to be repaid - this is a bailout.

[RealSchool]

Actually it was the decrease in demand of "qualified" borrowers. As they feared recession they quit applying for loans. Most of the standards stayed in place but for risker loans (people with credit scores under 620) that financing dried up (as it should).

He did attack the financial industry - by illegally taxing bonsuses. Not that any of those guys deserved it but it's borderline unconsititional.

Banks won't make loans to GM, Ford or Chysler. Loans are expected to be repaid - this is a bailout.

I can't believe you are getting a Great Wolf Lodge in Charlotte. Isn't the white water park enough for you guys? Charlotte gets all the good stuff.

[amazinblue]

...A better idea is to ask the southern senators why they have a problem with taxpayer money going to US auto industries, when they have given billions in taxpayer money to foreign car companies to setup plants in their states.

RealSchool,

I would enjoy seeing any southern Senator answer that question. The challenge is - they don't have the guts or insight to do so. I'm sure their answer would be "we're bringing living wage jobs to the US and our state." Essentially, the movement of auto assembly jobs to the US from Europe is "outsourcing" from European companies or operations.

And, since you've been so kind to refer to me as a "pinko" - which, in my interpretation would be some kind of commie / socialist liberal - I believe you've read the book incorrectly.

What I'm trying to infer is how absolutely absurb so much of this process is. Perhaps you're a fan of Timothey Geithner's. Perhaps, you go to the same accountant as he does - and as a result, have saved thousands on your income taxes because of "honest oversights"...

Obama & Co. are driving to a socialist state - with government control of everything. And, for the "auto indusry oversight committee" - don't you think it would be helpful if just one of them had some insight or experience in the industry?

RealSchool - I'm guessing that you look at GM and think "they make cars", which is partially correct. GM manufactures a lot more than cars and the supply chain associated with US auto manufacturing / assembly is extremely complex and far reaching. I'm sure you can help everyone here understand supply chain optimization based on a "borderless world" and the implications that both NAFTA and the evolution of the Indian / Chinese economies have had on US manufactured automobile content.

[amazinblue]

...He did attack the financial industry - by illegally taxing bonsuses. Not that any of those guys deserved it but it's borderline unconsititional...

Mich97c,

I'm just wondering, which financial services firms - besides AIG - that received TARP and other bailout funding - had their bonuses restricted, taxed, or cut.

I'm a believer of fair, market-based compensation. What I have difficulty fathoming is what these individuals from AIG did that merited their bonuses. IMO, many of the AIG employees that received these bonuses (which I agree would have been unfairly taxed) - didn't deserve them. I have no idea who developed their compensation plans, but I sure do wish that they would have created mine.

[RealSchool]

RealSchool,

I would enjoy seeing any southern Senator answer that question. The challenge is - they don't have the guts or insight to do so. I'm sure their answer would be "we're bringing living wage jobs to the US and our state." Essentially, the movement of auto assembly jobs to the US from Europe is "outsourcing" from European companies or operations.

And, since you've been so kind to refer to me as a "pinko" - which, in my interpretation would be some kind of commie / socialist liberal - I believe you've read the book incorrectly.

What I'm trying to infer is how absolutely absurb so much of this process is. Perhaps you're a fan of Timothey Geithner's. Perhaps, you go to the same accountant as he does - and as a result, have saved thousands on your income taxes because of "honest oversights"...

Obama & Co. are driving to a socialist state - with government control of everything. And, for the "auto indusry oversight committee" - don't you think it would be helpful if just one of them had some insight or experience in the industry?

RealSchool - I'm guessing that you look at GM and think "they make cars", which is partially correct. GM manufactures a lot more than cars and the supply chain associated with US auto manufacturing / assembly is extremely complex and far reaching. I'm sure you can help everyone here understand supply chain optimization based on a "borderless world" and the implications that both NAFTA and the evolution of the Indian / Chinese economies have had on US manufactured automobile content.


My guess is that by saying I can help everyone understand supply optimization is that you are begging me to ask you what you know. All I know about GM is that they once lead the way in the porn industry (look it up), and made junk cars in the 80's sealing their own fate.

[amazinblue]

All I know about GM is that they once lead the way in the porn industry (look it up), and made junk cars in the 80's sealing their own fate.

RealSchool,

I wonder if you received your entire education from PBS and that you stay current with Frontline - if so, my hat's off to you. You seem to present your case with absolute certainty. I can only infer that your opinions are based on wisdom and knowledge that few possess. And, your ability to draw obscure references (after all, the reference you made regarding GM and the industry is over seven years old - and, I think that what you mentioned was actually an editorial - how clever!) would indicate you have greater knowledge than most historians.

I'm quite surprised that the Obama administration hasn't already reached out to you to obtain your perspective on how to turn around the entire nation.

[chriswebber]

... and made junk cars in the 80's sealing their own fate.

Wait, if the trans am, camero, firio, silverado truck line were so bad in the 1980's, why is every trailer park filled with them now? What sealed their fate was the lack of balls to tell congress and the president where to put there precious liberal ideas. Here's how they could defeat the government.

1. Stop producing the military hummer and stop producing US government contracts.
2. Shut down every line except Caddy & Corvette. Act like Mercedes, just produce the best. This should inflate the car market alot.
3. Lay off the union, completely. Retain only the necessary amount to build the Caddy & Corvette.
4. Demolish the infrastructure to build the vehicles. This way Obama can't nationalize and reopen. Just bulldoze it. Make it a 'green' zone and write it off taxes.
5. Hold a press conference stating the aforementioned points. Stating doing so will make the shareholders profitable and the management rich with fewer headaches. State unless things like Cafe Standards, Union Laws, and High Taxes are changed. GM will be no longer functioning as the old GM. If people had balls, most likely the government would cave or next election, someone else would be in charge.:o

[Mich97c]

Mich97c,

I'm just wondering, which financial services firms - besides AIG - that received TARP and other bailout funding - had their bonuses restricted, taxed, or cut.

I'm a believer of fair, market-based compensation. What I have difficulty fathoming is what these individuals from AIG did that merited their bonuses. IMO, many of the AIG employees that received these bonuses (which I agree would have been unfairly taxed) - didn't deserve them. I have no idea who developed their compensation plans, but I sure do wish that they would have created mine.

I believe it was any firm receiving TARP funds. Bank of America, Citi, JP Morgan, Merrell, UBS, Goldman and many small banks also. This is why they are trying to pay it back as fast as possible. In the case of AIG, most of them were retention bonsuses so the guys that got them into that mess are being paid to stay on to try and unwind it.

No kidding about the comp plans on Wall Street. Mine is based on performance. If I stink at work - I don't get one. Doesn't seem to work that way with them.

[amazinblue]

I believe it was any firm receiving TARP funds. Bank of America, Citi, JP Morgan, Merrell, UBS, Goldman and many small banks also. This is why they are trying to pay it back as fast as possible. In the case of AIG, most of them were retention bonsuses so the guys that got them into that mess are being paid to stay on to try and unwind it.


Mich97c,

I believe one of the elements of the modified bill was "limiting" compensation for executives at certain firms receiving TARP monies - which is why Goldman Sachs wants to pay back whatever they took as quickly as possible, since their execs don't want to "work for free"... or what most certainly seems like "free"...

And, I agree about the comp plan - I've got four metrics at work - one of them is revenue, the second is margin - If I don't hit them, I'm on a very hot seat...

[RealSchool]

The bonus they get is not tied to performance, but a way to avoid taxes. If your salary is over a million you get taxed much much more, so that is why most get something like 8ook and then a huge bonus. All about taxes nothing to do with performance. Your education for the morning is now complete.

But of course amazinblue knew this already. :D

[Mich97c]

Mich97c,

I believe one of the elements of the modified bill was "limiting" compensation for executives at certain firms receiving TARP monies - which is why Goldman Sachs wants to pay back whatever they took as quickly as possible, since their execs don't want to "work for free"... or what most certainly seems like "free"...

And, I agree about the comp plan - I've got four metrics at work - one of them is revenue, the second is margin - If I don't hit them, I'm on a very hot seat...

I thought they came recently and said in addition to the limited comp they were taxing bonsuses up to 90% for those companies. And that tax wasn't limited to exe's like the limited portion.

[Mike Furley]

I believe it was any firm receiving TARP funds. Bank of America, Citi, JP Morgan, Merrell, UBS, Goldman and many small banks also. This is why they are trying to pay it back as fast as possible. In the case of AIG, most of them were retention bonsuses so the guys that got them into that mess are being paid to stay on to try and unwind it.

No kidding about the comp plans on Wall Street. Mine is based on performance. If I stink at work - I don't get one. Doesn't seem to work that way with them.

Some banks were forced by the govt. to take TARP funds even though they didn't want any of it.

Don't be seduced by the rhetoric of the blowhards who are lambasting the bonuses. This is just the first step in their quest to either limit/reduce wages across the board, or raise taxes on the rest of us.

It always starts with a small unpopular minority - in this case wealthy CEO's and executives. Once they've been fleeced it will filter down to the next group of wage earners. Look at the "millionaire" taxes enacted in several states like California, New York, New Jersey, and Maryland. Now they include people making $500k in with the millionaires, and are trying to lower that down to under $200k. That might still be "rich" in Michigan and Ohio but its not in those states - its middle class.

All of these actions are gauranteed to do one thing - shut down any chance of economic activity to recommence. What incentive is there for "rich" people to take chances and invest their money in new ventures when there's no payoff for them in the end? They're just going to button down the hatches and wait till 2013, or worse 2017.

[bluefan]

Was just told the douchebag gave Dodge and GM one year and they have to pull out of NASCAR. This guy is praying for some redneck dumbass to assassinate him. I don't give 2 shits about NASCAR but wow, he just punched his ticket for a 1 and done term. That is, if he survives the term. I was unaware Barack Hitler Obama had the power to tell a car company to get out of NASCAR. I can't wait to see what Mein Fuhrer has up next for us.

[Wolvrin704]

Was just told the douchebag gave Dodge and GM one year and they have to pull out of NASCAR. This guy is praying for some redneck dumbass to assassinate him. I don't give 2 shits about NASCAR but wow, he just punched his ticket for a 1 and done term. That is, if he survives the term. I was unaware Barack Hitler Obama had the power to tell a car company to get out of NASCAR. I can't wait to see what Mein Fuhrer has up next for us.

I believe thats an April Fool's story. At least Drudge has it reported that way. ;)

[bluefan]

I believe thats an April Fool's story. At least Drudge has it reported that way. ;)

I know. I'm surprised I didn't get "mgoblogged" on this one. Must be no one comes down here much.
A salesman came in this morning and sprung that one on us. At first there was a lot of "holy shits" and "is he on a death wish?" because everyone knows how some NASCAR fans can be insane. He eventually told us about hearing it on the radio and it was an April Fools deal. I thought I'd bounce it off you guys and let the three amigos (Furley, C-Webb and realschool) have at it.

[chriswebber]

Even the Emperor knew that the peasants needed their circuses... duh...:p

[Wolvrin704]

I know. I'm surprised I didn't get "mgoblogged" on this one. Must be no one comes down here much.
A salesman came in this morning and sprung that one on us. At first there was a lot of "holy shits" and "is he on a death wish?" because everyone knows how some NASCAR fans can be insane. He eventually told us about hearing it on the radio and it was an April Fools deal. I thought I'd bounce it off you guys and let the three amigos (Furley, C-Webb and realschool) have at it.

Sorry to have spoiled your fun.....

[bluefan]

Even the Emperor knew that the peasants needed their circuses... duh...:p

Really wasn't dogging you with the three amigos thing. I just like how Furley, you, and realschool get after each other. Or rather you and Furley get after realschool and vice versa.

[chriswebber]

Really wasn't dogging you with the three amigos thing. I just like how Furley, you, and realschool get after each other. Or rather you and Furley get after realschool and vice versa.

Whatever, Real School is going to seize your wealth and lock you in a FEMA camp.

[RealSchool]

Whatever, Real School is going to seize your wealth and lock you in a FEMA camp.

realschool is 1 word not 2. Dope.

[chriswebber]

realschool is 1 word not 2. Dope.

so wait.... you Real School is one word? Why are there 2 capital letters?

[RealSchool]

so wait.... you Real School is one word? Why are there 2 capital letters?

Since taking on a leadership role on this website, I think two capital letters fits well.