Death penalty in Michigan?

[goblue]

After 5 year old Nevaeh Buchanan of Monroe, Michigan went missing May 24, 2009, some relatives of the little girl brought up the death penalty issue. On Thursday, June 4, two fishermen were fishing along a river bank 12 miles from the girl's home. They smelt a strong odor and figured it was dead fish from downstream. They also noticed an encasement of cement along the river but thought nothing of it. One of the fisherman put his foot on the cement while fishing and a piece of the cement chipped off. The odor became stronger and before he knew it maggots were all over him with flies all over the place. He poked at the cement and saw human skin. The police were then notified and though it's not confirmed, it is believed to be the body of Nevaeh Buchanan.

Michigan has not had the death penalty since 1846. There have been times in the past where the death penalty was petitioned but not enough signatures were signed in order for it to be put on a ballot. In cases such as this that involves children or other certain brutal crimes, I believe the death penalty should be applied in Michigan. What does everyone else think about bringing capital punishment to Michigan?

[gator]

Personally, I always felt it was a badge of honor that FL sent Bundy to the electric chair. FL has its own issues right now with the death penalty because some dude caught fire a couple years ago. It's fine with me if they want to find a more humane way to do it because I don't think the death penalty should be about vengence. It should be about justice and there are some crimes that you can't be rehabilitated for and, quite honestly, I think you forfeit your right to live. As a Christian, you believe that any crime is forgivable, but it doesn't mean you don't get punished (big difference in those two things). People like child rapist, child killers (especially if it is your own), serial killers, and the Drew and Scott Petersons of this world got not place here.

That's only my opinion, of course.

[GoDeepHammer]

Bring back the death penalty, limit the number of appeals. Get these tax burdens off the books and open up the prisons and jails for more criminals.

[Mike Furley]

Good topic GoBlue.

I live in Ohio, so I first want to say that I think it should be a decision consistent with the culture and ideology of the people in Michigan. I just think capital punishment is an issue that should reflect the mood of the locality as much as is feasible. I'm not big on the federal government having much say in the matter.

My own personal view for my state is:

the state should not be in the practice of sanctioning the killing of any of any human beings. I would outlaw capital punishment, abortion, and euthenasia.

I do recognize that some crimes are very heinous. I do believe evil people exist. I do understand and empathize with people who are victims, or have loved ones who have been victims, of violent and heinous crimes desiring justice be delivered - and that justice to them is the death of the criminal.

That being said, I just think that one wrongful death carried out by capital punishment is one too many. I do not have faith in prosecutors, investigators, judges, and juries being 100% correct in their decisions. That convictions are routinely overturned is testament to this. Not only this, but I feel prosecutors may abuse the threat of capital punishment to secure the wrongful plea of an innocent person to life in prison.

What should be done to remedy on the one hand the rights of victims to secure justice, or taxpayers from subsidizing the life of criminals and protection of justice for the wrongfully convicted?

I think a return of "hard labor" should be instituted. I actually think the idea of backbreaking work for the rest of thier natural life would be more of a deterrant to some of the fatalistic criminals out there than capital punishment.

I'm not sure if the Supreme Court has ruled "hard labor" to be unconstitutional or not, but if it has, the issue needs to be revisited. Even if a constitutional ammendment need be ratified, I think it's a better avenue for rendering justice than capital punishment.

That's my two cents anyway.

[gator]

Good topic GoBlue.

I live in Ohio, so I first want to say that I think it should be a decision consistent with the culture and ideology of the people in Michigan. I just think capital punishment is an issue that should reflect the mood of the locality as much as is feasible. I'm not big on the federal government having much say in the matter.

My own personal view for my state is:

the state should not be in the practice of sanctioning the killing of any of any human beings. I would outlaw capital punishment, abortion, and euthenasia.

I do recognize that some crimes are very heinous. I do believe evil people exist. I do understand and empathize with people who are victims, or have loved ones who have been victims, of violent and heinous crimes desiring justice be delivered - and that justice to them is the death of the criminal.

That being said, I just think that one wrongful death carried out by capital punishment is one too many. I do not have faith in prosecutors, investigators, judges, and juries being 100% correct in their decisions. That convictions are routinely overturned is testament to this. Not only this, but I feel prosecutors may abuse the threat of capital punishment to secure the wrongful plea of an innocent person to life in prison.

What should be done to remedy on the one hand the rights of victims to secure justice, or taxpayers from subsidizing the life of criminals and protection of justice for the wrongfully convicted?

I think a return of "hard labor" should be instituted. I actually think the idea of backbreaking work for the rest of thier natural life would be more of a deterrant to some of the fatalistic criminals out there than capital punishment.

I'm not sure if the Supreme Court has ruled "hard labor" to be unconstitutional or not, but if it has, the issue needs to be revisited. Even if a constitutional ammendment need be ratified, I think it's a better avenue for rendering justice than capital punishment.

That's my two cents anyway.


Very respectful and thoughtful comments. I agree that it should be a state issue as well and that it should reflect the local sentiment. That way, this argument doesn't get to be a huge wedge issue where half of the country get's their way over the other. Come to think of it, kind of sounds like a good way to handle abortion as well. Those founding fathers were really onto something with that sovereignty of state thing. Too bad the federal government has been stepping on state rights for years.

I also couldn't agree more with instituting hard labor again. Prisoner's rights my ass. Hard-core criminals should get the toughest and most menial labor (like digging holes and filling them back in) from sunrise to sunset, IMO. Unless, of course, they can find some tough labor that actually benefits citizens.

I respect your thoughts about the death penalty, especially when you bring up thoughts of wrongful convictions. For the record, I think the evidence should be overwhelming in these cases. I was just curious though, what are your thoughts on the slam dunk, obviously guilty, worst of the worst types? Does your opinion change? I brought up the example of Ted Bundy. I agree that making him work hard-labor everyday that he was waiting on appeal would have been somewhat satisfying, but why would we keep people like him around after every legal action is exhausted. You know he's guilty as hell because he's leading you to bodies that were never found, and you know a lot of thsoe victims were young, innocent girls. I mean he loved the 12-18 age range. That's just horrible. IMO, letting someone like that live is an insult to the victims' families. It says this monster's life deserves more respect than your sister, daughter, mother, etc....

[zilla]

I quit being for the death penalty when Susan Smith from South Carolina did not receive it. If any person deserved it Susan Smith did. How can we send others to their death when this lady still lives after killing her kids and then lied about it saying she was car jacked?

[gator]

I quit being for the death penalty when Susan Smith from South Carolina did not receive it. If any person deserved it Susan Smith did. How can we send others to their death when this lady still lives after killing her kids and then lied about it saying she was car jacked?

Worse than her was that woman who drowned her five children. Texas, wasn't it? I don't remember her name. Got off with insanity. Well, there is no questioning that she was insane, most killers are. Take serial killers, I would think they certainly qualify as insane to most logical people. Not sure it should get them out of the death penalty....especially that bitch. How in the hell do you drown all five of your children in a bathtub...one by one? How could you watch their faces as their life slips away? Pure EVIL!!!!

[goblue]

Worse than her was that woman who drowned her five children. Texas, wasn't it? I don't remember her name. Got off with insanity. Well, there is no questioning that she was insane, most killers are. Take serial killers, I would think they certainly qualify as insane to most logical people. Not sure it should get them out of the death penalty....especially that bitch. How in the hell do you drown all five of your children in a bathtub...one by one? How could you watch their faces as their life slips away? Pure EVIL!!!!

That was Andrea Yates. She killed her children on June 20, 2001. She suffered for years with very severe postpartum depression and psychosis. What's so tragic is the psychiatrists warned her and her husband not to have more kids many years prior to that tragic incident cause that would only bring on more postpartum depression. She also had a nervous breakdown and had suicide attempts prior to the killings. It's unbelievable that she still had custody of her kids with that type of history.

[goblue]

What ever happened to Casey Anthony? Could she get the death penalty?

[zilla]

That was Andrea Yates. She killed her children on June 20, 2001. She suffered for years with very severe postpartum depression and psychosis. What's so tragic is the psychiatrists warned her and her husband not to have more kids many years prior to that tragic incident cause that would only bring on more postpartum depression. She also had a nervous breakdown and had suicide attempts prior to the killings. It's unbelievable that she still had custody of her kids with that type of history.

Her husband makes me sick. He pushed more kids on her and left her alone with those kids daily knowing the state of mind she was in. To top it off, he goes on all the talk show after seeking his 15 minutes of fame.

He belongs in jail.

[gator]

Her husband makes me sick. He pushed more kids on her and left her alone with those kids daily knowing the state of mind she was in. To top it off, he goes on all the talk show after seeking his 15 minutes of fame.

He belongs in jail.

Classic example of the liberal mindset. The actual perpetrator is never actually at fault, it was some condition or environment setting caused or forced by somebody else that resulted in their actions. You've been buying it for years from your liberal politicians - it's not your fault that you don't have a bigger house, the credit card companies are why you have $10,000 dollars of credit card debt, it's not your fault that you don't make more money at your fast-food job.....it's the rich and republicans that have been holding you down. Blah, blah, blah, blaaaaaa.......

Now, I will agree that appearing on shows, if it was indeed motivated by fame, was ridiculous. But how about, just once, letting someone be responsible for their own actions. She should be the one that makes you sick....you know the one who actually drowned her fucking kids!!!

[zilla]

Classic example of the liberal mindset. The actual perpetrator is never actually at fault, it was some condition or environment setting caused or forced by somebody else that resulted in their actions. You've been buying it for years from your liberal politicians - it's not your fault that you don't have a bigger house, the credit card companies are why you have $10,000 dollars of credit card debt, it's not your fault that you don't make more money at your fast-food job.....it's the rich and republicans that have been holding you down. Blah, blah, blah, blaaaaaa.......

Now, I will agree that appearing on shows, if it was indeed motivated by fame, was ridiculous. But how about, just once, letting someone be responsible for their own actions. She should be the one that makes you sick....you know the one who actually drowned her fucking kids!!!


Dear god I hope you never have kids or don't have any now. It is about responsibility. That father had the obligation to protect his kids and he failed, simple as that.

Where in my post you dope did I say she was not responsible? She killed her kids simple as that. However, if my wife had diagnosed mental problems no way in hell she is staying home with my 4 year old son, no way. That is what is called responsibility. Hopefully something you will learn once you join the working world.

Also love how you take a situation like this and turn it into liberal vs. conservative. Man you have no shame.

[gator]

Dear god I hope you never have kids or don't have any now. It is about responsibility. That father had the obligation to protect his kids and he failed, simple as that.

Where in my post you dope did I say she was not responsible? She killed her kids simple as that. However, if my wife had diagnosed mental problems no way in hell she is staying home with my 4 year old son, no way. That is what is called responsibility. Hopefully something you will learn once you join the working world.

Also love how you take a situation like this and turn it into liberal vs. conservative. Man you have no shame.

I agree that crazy bitch wouldn't have been around my kids either. Yes, he had some responsibility, but he didn't kill them. Since you only blamed him and not her in your statement; I just figured you were taking the typical liberal stance on criminals. The whole liberal movement is about dodging personal responsibility. If you're so big on responsibility, how in the heck are you a liberal?

I like you lecturing me on responsibility:D Nice!!

[zilla]

I am not a liberal. I am one of the very few moderates left in this country.

I have liberal views and conservative.

For example:

-Am I tired of paying for your college? YES. Paint me conservative.
-Am I pro-choice? YES. Government should mind their own business Paint me conservative.
-Am I against nation building in Iraq? YES. Paint me conservative.

[gator]

I am not a liberal. I am one of the very few moderates left in this country.

I have liberal views and conservative.

For example:

-Am I tired of paying for your college? YES. Paint me conservative.
-Am I pro-choice? YES. Government should mind their own business Paint me conservative.
-Am I against nation building in Iraq? YES. Paint me conservative.

How many times do I have to tell you....don't fret, you aren't paying for my college. I admit that many Ph.D. students do receive their stipends through government grants though. What is your solution though? Have the country quit producing Ph.Ds. because that is pretty much what would happen if everone had to pay tuition, go to school (which is more than any full-time job I've ever worked), and pay to live. Unless, of course, your family is already rich. But that would only futher the advantage of the rich over the poor, and I'm sure you hate the rich. I've always thought that education was the "Great Equalizer." That's how I have advanced from my less than humble beginnings (no joke). In truth, hard-core education (things like engineering and mathematics, not communications, psychology, and journalism type shit) is one of the best investments for the government because those people will get jobs and pay taxes. They just can't have too many people getting educated because they wouldn't need the government anymore, and they might not keep those assclowns in power anymore.

Not to get into name calling, but you have now added delusional to your repetoire, along with belligerent and illogical. Moderate, my ass! I might agree that you are just right of Obama's left nut.

[zilla]

"In truth, hard-core education (things like engineering and mathematics, not communications, psychology, and journalism type shit) is one of the best investments for the government because those people will get jobs and pay taxes."


Other than your use of profanity I agree with this.

[goblue]

Her husband makes me sick. He pushed more kids on her and left her alone with those kids daily knowing the state of mind she was in. To top it off, he goes on all the talk show after seeking his 15 minutes of fame.

He belongs in jail.

But if you look at the history of this case it was their preacher, Michael Peter Woroniecki, who put the most damaging pressure on both of them. He verbally chastised Andrea and the husband Russell Yates, saying they were headed for hell.

Andrea was raised a roman catholic but followed preacher Woroniecki, whom she met through her husband. The preacher promoted a doctrine that his followers should have as many children as nature allows. Rusty had a falling out with the preacher, but Andrea continued to follow the preacher. Woroniecki berated her for her unrighteous standing before God. Andrea believed she was evil because this preacher told her she was. Andrea believed she was a bad mother who was spiritually and behaviorally damaging her children and that it was better for her to die than to cause her children to stumble and go to hell-a staple of Woroniecki's teaching to parents.

It's unbelievable that common sense no longer prevails with some people. It's only common sense that people should not have as many children as nature allows, regardless of who says what or what religion they are. I do think the preacher should be held somewhat liable for this for these brutal teachings. But at the same time the preacher never forced them to follow him. Andrea and Russell chose to follow this preacher.

[wolverine]

yea we need the DP here in michigan lets start with the GOV