Al Franken is officially a Senator. Now what?

[Mike Furley]

Okay, now that Al Franken has been officially declared the winner, the Democrats now have a fillibuster proof majority in the Senate, a forty plus seat advantage in the House, and the White House with Barack Obama.

Do the Democrats have any excuse for not creating the utopian vision they've campaigned on for the past forty years by election day 2012?

He got the stimulus bill he wanted. He got the omnibus spending bill he wanted. He's been able to visit all parts of the world and annunciate his foreign policy vision. The House has passed his energy bill. He's nationalized General Motors and Chrysler. Both branches are working on a health care bill for this summer. Card Check is on deck and there have been rumblings immigration/amnesty is not too far off in the future.

I think a lot of people have given the president some slack for inheriting a down economy. How many more months are the Democrats allowed to avoid responsibility for the state of the country (because it's Bush and Cheney's fault)? When does the state of the country get judged by their actions? Now that there aren't any impediments to their agenda, shouldn't the country be humming by 2012?

[amazinblue]

IMO, the path to self-destruction has just been made clearer.

I live in Illinois - and was familiar with Obama before he began his candidacy for the White House. The question that is just now coming up is - "how will we pay for this?" Shouldn't this question have been asked earlier?

The Democrats are passing legislation with enormous costs involved. Yet, there has been little discussion, and IMO, even less thought, to how the country will actually pay for what has been promised and proposed.

I have news for you - you're about to watch the standard of living in the US decline - and it's going to be on a long slow decline for a very long time - since the burden of taxation, which the various legislative bodies seem to have overlooked - will takes its toll. Even families who make "decent" money, will see their taxes increase - ohh, maybe not their federal tax (since Obama's made sure that won't happen if they make less than $200K / year) - but, their state taxes will increase, "sin" taxes are doubling, other federal excise taxes will be imposed. We're becoming a tax more - and spend "even more" society - without checks and balances.

Yes - it will be interesting to watch...

[The Michigan Man]

Minnesota is a joke. Electing pro wrestlers and hack comedians to important elected offices is beyond irresponsible. Stewart Smalley is a pathetic, bitter, liberal clown.

[zilla]

Minnesota is a joke. Electing pro wrestlers and hack comedians to important elected offices is beyond irresponsible. Stewart Smalley is a pathetic, bitter, liberal clown.

Sorry you hate democracy. Hopefully they will check-in with you first before placing their vote.

[The Michigan Man]

Sorry you hate democracy. Hopefully they will check-in with you first before placing their vote.

That is a bizarre and silly conclusion. So if I don't like every democratically produced result, I hate democracy? Stupid.

Part of the democratic experience is the exercising my right to ridicule idiots for voting ignorantly.

[zilla]

That is a bizarre and silly conclusion. So if I don't like every democratically produced result, I hate democracy? Stupid.

Part of the democratic experience is the exercising my right to ridicule idiots for voting ignorantly.

You have a very good point. When Bush was voted into a second term I yelled out "what idiots!"

[The Michigan Man]

You have a very good point. When Bush was voted into a second term I yelled out "what idiots!"

So therefore you hate democracy.

[zilla]

So therefore you hate democracy.



Nah, just Republican's that have ruined our country.

[Medic]

Nah, just Republican's that have ruined our country.

But not the democrats?

[zilla]

But not the democrats?

They are in the middle of doing that now, be patient.

[michAGAIN]

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/images-2/al-franken.jpg

The guy is a living advertisement for the "Fork in the Toaster Hair Salon"

[The Michigan Man]

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/images-2/al-franken.jpg

The guy is a living advertisement for the "Fork in the Toaster Hair Salon"

I'm going to defer to Don U, he loves to closely analyze men and then offer his opinion as to whether they are attractive or not. Is he your type, Don? On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate him, Mr. Ed?

[Medic]

I'm pretty sure that pic is doctored

[byebyelloyd]

But not the democrats?

how long will it take for you democrat fucking morons to realize it was the clinton white house and a democrat controlled congress that willingly pushed legislation that rewarded the manufacturing sector, the foundation of the U.S.A. since its inception, to leave to country for slave labor profits?? now spin that one on the republicans if you're stupid enough to try.

[zilla]

how long will it take for you democrat fucking morons to realize it was the clinton white house and a democrat controlled congress that willingly pushed legislation that rewarded the manufacturing sector, the foundation of the U.S.A. since its inception, to leave to country for slave labor profits?? now spin that one on the republicans if you're stupid enough to try.

Who the hell cares? Not me. I love NAFTA, and if some Mexican can do the same no skilled job for less than go for it. It is called capitalism. Would you rather have all these jobs back in the U.S. and paying much more for your goods? I wouldn't.

Perhaps you should move to North Korea.

[The Michigan Man]

Who the hell cares? Not me. I love NAFTA, and if some Mexican can do the same no skilled job for less than go for it. It is called capitalism. Would you rather have all these jobs back in the U.S. and paying much more for your goods? I wouldn't.

Perhaps you should move to North Korea.

The relentless pursuit of cheap labor has been the downfall of this country since its founding. Slavery, illegal immigration, and now the dismantling of the US' manufacturing base by exploiting 3rd world labor.

Economically, it would be close to an offest if all of the manufacturing jobs returned. True the prices would go up to some degree, but the billions in wages paid to the workers (and billions not paid by the government in unemployment) would fuel the US economy.

Do you like the fact that almost every product you buy has a "Made in China" tag? You don't think the US is paying a huge price in return for losing our ability to manufacture our own products? Wake up.

[zilla]

The relentless pursuit of cheap labor has been the downfall of this country since its founding. Slavery, illegal immigration, and now the dismantling of the US' manufacturing base by exploiting 3rd world labor.

Economically, it would be close to an offest if all of the manufacturing jobs returned. True the prices would go up to some degree, but the billions in wages paid to the workers (and billions not paid by the government in unemployment) would fuel the US economy.

Do you like the fact that almost every product you buy has a "Made in China" tag? You don't think the US is paying a huge price in return for losing our ability to manufacture our own products? Wake up.


All depends on what side of the fence you are on. If you are educated and and/or have jobs skills global trade is a good thing. If you are a highschool grad with no skills, well times are tough. I would like to see where it is written that a corporation owes anyone a job. It's funny, the more posts I read on this site the more I think I am the only one that isn't a socialist.

[amazinblue]

Do you like the fact that almost every product you buy has a "Made in China" tag? You don't think the US is paying a huge price in return for losing our ability to manufacture our own products? Wake up.

A positive trade balance can be representative of a growing economy, and a trade deficit can indicate a consumptive and wealthy economy - does anyone out here wonder when the lable "Owned by China" will be placed on the US? China owns more US debt than any other country in the world. And, the US has to think about becoming a bit more of a savings oriented culture rather than a consumption oriented culture. We're borrowing against our future - and have been doing so for at least 20 years.

The changes that our economy and culture face are enormous. The ethical traits - hard work, entrepeneurial pursuits, and creativity - have been replaced by instant gratification and credit.

If we remain a major economic force, we have to change some fundamental things about us. One of those is to reduce the obvious and conspicuous consumption that has brought us to this state.

The overarching challenge we face is this. Most likely, the standard of living which we've grown so accustomed to in the US will be either stagnant or decline in the next two generations - while emerging economies (China, India, etc.) will realize a continued improvement in their standard of living. We must make sacrifices - and, IMO, that means educating our children and society in order to compete effectively on a world stage - in a world economy.

The burdens that will be placed by the Obama administration on the economy will be enormous. I find it shocking that "just now" these questions are being asked by journalists. Hasn't anyone wondered - "where are these trillions of dollars going to come from?" It doesn't seem to have crossed the mind of Obama, Pelosi, or Reid. And, I feel our children's futures are being mortgaged by irresponsible acts of the current administration. Should the health care bill pass - with no tort reform or other focused efforts to address the root causes of the problem - we'll be facing double digit unemployment and huge federal deficits until the middle of the century.

[zilla]

"that means educating our children and society in order to compete effectively on a world stage - in a world economy."


100% correct. Instead of looking to what once was, we need to understand that we have opened up a box that will never be closed. These unskilled labor jobs are not coming back. What scares me more than anything is we are losing the education race and others are catching up with us or already have past us. We must continue to be the country of innovation, and if the other nations produce what we invent so be it.

[amazinblue]

"that means educating our children and society in order to compete effectively on a world stage - in a world economy."


100% correct. Instead of looking to what once was, we need to understand that we have opened up a box that will never be closed. These unskilled labor jobs are not coming back. What scares me more than anything is we are losing the education race and others are catching up with us or already have past us. We must continue to be the country of innovation, and if the other nations produce what we invent so be it.

One of the things that really perturbs me about what the candidates say when their campaigning are some blatantly false or simply uneducated and uninformed statements. For example, statements made that Michigan will become the hub for a "new energy industry" developing and building new energy efficient technologies. My question is - "who is going to invent these technologies?" Someone who never graduated from high school - or someone who has in depth knowledge of a field - most likely a hard science - physics, mathematics, electrical engineering, etc.? I'll bet on the latter - and, if you look at who has been getting those advanced degrees in hard sciences - those from foreign countries like China, India, Vietnam, and Japan far outnumber those earned by US born students.

I'm sure our educational system creates a lot of PhD's in English and Literature, but - unfortunately, those advanced degrees aren't going to create the technologies and solutions necessary.

I do believe we are losing a position in leadership in education that we may have held in the 1950's and 1960's. And, the reason is - our educational system at the primary and secondary levels is taking the easy way out. Teachers Unions are among the most powerful lobbying groups, and there seems to be a tremendous reluctance to allow or introduce vouchers that would actually create a competitive environment in education. I know many people who move to a particular area for one reason - schools - schools that will educate their children well and prepare them for college or advanced fields of study.

It takes hard work to earn any technical / science degree - my degrees are in electrical and computer engineering - so, I know what Gator's been up to - and I've got the greatest respect for those who commit to those fields of study and make the sacrifices necessary to achieve them.

What I fear is that we're going to become (if we haven't already) is a society that raises children who are good at playing computer games and that expects government to subside a superior standard of living . A society where people aren't willing to work hard to provide a better life for themselves and their families. IMO, we've been on a lackadaisical death sprial for 20 or 30 years - overwhlemed by television and media - that's incapable of independent thought - and will be overrun by countries who are willing to do the hard things to achieve and provide.

So, when these great new energy technologies are going to be developed - and, for arguments sake - let's just say they are created in Michigan - who will manufacture and assemble them? My guess - they'll be manufactured in Mexico, Brazil, India, China, or Eastern Europe - why? Because of the cost of labor. The only reason they'd be manufactured here is if it's a requirement of the research funding associated with the development of these technologies - and, even if it is - then that company will be acquired - and the manufacturing will occur offshore.

I just wonder - has anyone in Washington thought about this?

[gator]

100% correct. We must continue to be the country of innovation, and if the other nations produce what we invent so be it.

Yes, Yes, Yes. Innovation has made this country great. I don't think the spirit of innovation has left this great people, it is more of a matter of motivation. On the brink of finishing our schooling, my wife and I will have approximately 16 years of college between us. Unfortunately, I'm starting to think, "Why have we put ourselves though all of this? Why have we denied ourselvses time together, vacations, and a whole lot of the creature comforts for this many years?" That answer used to be easy - we'll suffer now to make the kind of future we want. Considering how high taxes are getting for the upper tax brackets, I'm starting to think, "Hell, we could have quit 6 years ago with our bachelors, made a decent living, payed less taxes, and come out about the same." This is what I worry about: were is the motivation for our future generations to make these kind of sacrifices? This trek is hard, and it's human nature to take the easy way out (especially when big daddy government is there to subsidize our society's failures and penalize our society's successes). These economic policies and social program sound good in terms of humanitarian effort, but the truth is they are strangling the economy and forcing ever growing tax increases. In turn, it is killing the motivation to be innovative, to push hard in school, to start a new business.....big government is killing this country's economic future and Obama has just put the ship in warp speed.

[Wolvrin704]

"that means educating our children and society in order to compete effectively on a world stage - in a world economy."


100% correct. Instead of looking to what once was, we need to understand that we have opened up a box that will never be closed. These unskilled labor jobs are not coming back. What scares me more than anything is we are losing the education race and others are catching up with us or already have past us. We must continue to be the country of innovation, and if the other nations produce what we invent so be it.

And then like Japan in WWII when crunch time comes and we're at war with the countries that supply what we need then what do we do? If everyone becomes educated and goes after white collar jobs where are those jobs going to come from and doing what?

[The Michigan Man]

All depends on what side of the fence you are on. If you are educated and and/or have jobs skills global trade is a good thing. If you are a highschool grad with no skills, well times are tough. I would like to see where it is written that a corporation owes anyone a job. It's funny, the more posts I read on this site the more I think I am the only one that isn't a socialist.

Do you even understand what socialism is? Reread my post and find where I state that the government should do something about it. More knee-jerking from you, you love to fly off the handle and draw crazy conclusions.

Our national security has been compromised over and over by the pursuit of of cheap labor. We have fought a civil war costing millions of lives, allowed millions of unchecked immigrants to pour across the border, and handed our manufacturing base over to 3rd world and communist countries. Make a case how any of that is good for this country - obviously it has been great for various corporations.

And if we are doing this in the name of reducing prices to consumers, that isn't happening. Have the prices of consumer goods dropped since the great manufacturing exodus? Is a t-shirt made in China any cheaper today, adjusting for inflation, than one made 30 years ago in the US? If a manufacturer moves his operations to China to save $3 in labor per unit, does he then dutifully lower the product's cost by $3? Get real, of course not...

[gator]

I would like to see where it is written that a corporation owes anyone a job. It's funny, the more posts I read on this site the more I think I am the only one that isn't a socialist.

When MM replied to this message, it caught my eye more than before.

I too would like to see where it is written in the Constitution that government shall bail out failing businesses (yes Bush was guilty as well) and provide healthcare for all Americans.

[byebyelloyd]

Who the hell cares? Not me. I love NAFTA, and if some Mexican can do the same no skilled job for less than go for it. It is called capitalism. Would you rather have all these jobs back in the U.S. and paying much more for your goods? I wouldn't.

Perhaps you should move to North Korea.

yes, yes, the alternative to that is working out just great for us isn't it. the US was such a shitty place to live when high paying jobs were still here and unemployment was under 5%. you're a moron to think trade agreements like those benefit my country.

[byebyelloyd]

And then like Japan in WWII when crunch time comes and we're at war with the countries that supply what we need then what do we do? If everyone becomes educated and goes after white collar jobs where are those jobs going to come from and doing what?

which society in history has ever flourished with this type of economy? what do you believe will happen to you nice high paying job when labor unions stop lobbying, even though that in itself contributes to our own downfall, and your own beloved corporation decides that either your education is now worth $2 an hour or better yet that someone overseas with the same background will accept $1.50 an hour? is your government going to step forward and protect your interests? will you just reason with the officers that you deserve that high salary because you're irreplaceable? god damn, i wouldn't bet on it, but its coming and don't expect any of these "high school grad, uneducated no skill workers" to give a shit. they'll most likely be stepping on top of your head while you try to keep it above water.

[Medic]

Your signature makes my eyes bleed

[byebyelloyd]

Your signature makes my eyes bleed

well, never fear, like all government processes, universal healthcare controlled by washington DC will take care of that with no problem. well, then again, how old are you? anywhere over 30 and you may not live long enough to get into your doctor with our new coverage.