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Medic
07-07-2009, 04:21 PM
Continuing on with Mike's early post about concern with Obama's economic policy I would like to offer the following article for mass digestion:

Denninger's Mid Year Review
http://market-ticker.org/archives/1178-Mid-Year-2009-Checkup.html

He spends a little time patting himself on the back for hitting some of his predictions but his analysis is absolutely spot on and is crucial to understanding the depths of how badly the government is fucking things up right now. I read this article and it was if I was experiencing a mind meld, he more specifically talks about the problems I brought up in Mike's thread and late in his article he directly answers some of the questions Gator and Mich97c had about CDS and the leverage in the markets. While it's long, I encourage all of you to read it. A small sample:


California is just the beginning of this unraveling; they are now issuing IOUs. Most other states will find themselves in similar circumstances and be forced to dramatically curtail spending along with raising taxes. The public labor unions (state and federal) are currently able to prevent their overly-fat pension and benefit programs from being brought in line with private industry, but this will not last forever, and when that wall cracks it will come with ferocious intensity. The "death spiral" of higher taxes leading people to erect their middle finger and either cocoon, go underground with their earnings, or depart has begun in California and will spread - count on it.

At some point reality must be faced, and we may as well do it now while we still have civil order. Those politicians, numbering nearly all of them from both parties, who argue that this can be "avoided" or that we can "support housing (and/or asset) prices" need to be run out of town on a rail.

There is no way to prevent the unwinding of leverage when the carrying costs exceed income and the more debt we as a society take on in trying to do so the worse things will get in the end, as we are simply adding to the pile of defaults that must occur.

I am quickly running out of possible scenarios to prevent a severe deflationary depression from taking place. By "severe" I mean 20%+ U3 unemployment, GDP contraction of at least 25%, and a possible loss of federal funding capacity leading to the immediate destruction of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, a 50% reduction of defense spending and near-complete-elimination of all other Federal Programs due to a "sudden stop" in the ability to fund Treasury issuance. Yes, it could get that bad, and it could happen a lot faster than you think.

Mich97c
07-08-2009, 10:40 AM
That was a good article - he pointed out one thing that I really truly believe got us into this mess:

The problem is that they're more awful today than they were two years ago when I started yelling about this in the current economic malaise, and are much more awful than they were in 2000, when we should have done it, but refused due to the idiocy of Alan Greenspan and our elected government officials at the time.



After the internet bubble of the 90's popped and then the attacks of 9/11, why weren't we in a serve depression? We should of been, a market run up of historic propositions and the subsequent collapse followed by an attack on civilians which led to war - that all should of led to a serve economic depression. But what did Greenspan do? He cut rates and refused to raise them leading to a stupid housing bubble. The consumer is no better - how many people did you know who all of the sudden became an expert in "flipping" houses, used home equity loans as credit cards, cash out refinances? The greed of America took over, the greed of Wall Street was quick to give them the money and the greed of the Fed to look good all contributed to this which in turn lead to a bubble that when it burst, sent banks running for the hills, bankrupted the auto makers, and has countless others feeling the effects.

Here's another quote where you I feel you can't just blame Obama - blame 'em all for sticking their noses in this mess. Seriously, do you think McCain would do anything different than Obama?

:At some point reality must be faced, and we may as well do it now while we still have civil order. Those politicians, numbering nearly all of them from both parties, who argue that this can be "avoided" or that we can "support housing (and/or asset) prices" need to be run out of town on a rail.

Government is just a bunch of patchwork throwing anything they can to make it look like they're doing something about for the American people when in reality this collapse has to work itself out. Greed from everyone got us into this yet no one wants to look in the mirror and admit they made grave mistakes, we just want to blame people and have someone fix it for us when it can't be fixed.

gator
07-08-2009, 08:39 PM
In the link to his original predictions, I found this little nugget which I found utterly disturbing:

How did we have a bill, the EESA/TARP that obligated citizens to pay $700 billion in taxes that we do not have (that is, to put us all in debt by another $700 billion), that was opposed from 100:1 to 300:1 in calls, faxes and letters to Congress, was passed over those objections with an election less than a month away, and we the people then returned 90% of those who voted "Yes" and stood for re-election to office?

As he concluded in the article you posted, this is not a partisan issue. The problem is that we keep perpetuating this economic disaster (with more debt) to epic proportions. We, as a society, have not held our leaders accountable, making it all too easy for politicians to keep their heads in the sand. I'm not aware of any politician willing to make the tough calls and give it to us straight (he simply won't get elected or at least re-elected). Rectification of this situation is going to require some tough calls that the vast majority of "ignorant" Americans are not going to be willing to accept. Some time before I was born, the entire culture in this country changed from "don't buy it if you can't afford it" to "don't worry about it and buy with credit." The sense of entitlement has permeated throughout the entire country and it drives me crazy. All of my adult life, I have lived within my means while watching all those around me get the bigger house, newer cars, big screens, and luxurious vacation trips. My little piece of mind was always "that lifestyle is unsubstainable and they will ultimately pay for it." To my disappointment, our government has done everything in their power to make sure these people never suffer the penalty for their mistaken judgement. It really just pisses me off.

gator
07-08-2009, 11:45 PM
Thought I would post this as an example of what a politician, who would actually want to clean up this mess, would have to deal with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI&feature=PlayList&p=C19499E2161F8F85&index=138

Oh, thank God for the poor and dumb in this country. Thanks, Obama!!