Can a viable opposition leader emerge?....

[Mike Furley]

....Or is the bench empty?

"They tell us we must learn to live with less, and teach our children that their lives will be less full and prosperous than ours have been; that the America of the coming years will be a place where — because of our past excesses — it will be impossible to dream and make those dreams come true. I don't believe that. And, I don't believe you do either. That is why I am seeking the presidency. I cannot and will not stand by and see this great country destroy itself. Our leaders attempt to blame their failures on circumstances beyond their control, on false estimates by unknown, unidentifiable experts who rewrite modern history in an attempt to convince us our high standard of living, the result of thrift and hard work, is somehow selfish extravagance which we must renounce as we join in sharing scarcity. I don't agree that our nation must resign itself to inevitable decline, yielding its proud position to other hands. I am totally unwilling to see this country fail in its obligation to itself and to the other free peoples of the world."

Ronald Reagan announcing his candidacy for president in 1979.

Thank God he had the fire in his belly to cast the Carter Administration off the backs of America.

Who will do the same with respect to the Obama Administration?

In looking back at history over the past 60 years, here are the candidates who were not either the incumbant president or incumbant vice president:

2008: The incumbant vice president, Dick Cheney, chose not to seek the nomination of his party.

The Republicans nominated the runner up from their last open primary (2000)

The Democrats selected a fresh-faced, first term Senator (Barack Obama) and keynote speaker from their previous convention. The previous vice presidential candidate, John Edwards, was defeated in a primary.

2004:

The Democrats nominated John Kerry, a party veteran from Massachusetts and US Senator. Their previous vice presidential candidate, Joe Lieberman was defeated in the primary.

2000:

The Republicans nominated George W. Bush, a semi-fresh faced, two term governor from Texas. His father was a recent former president. The Republican's previous vice presidential candidate, Jack Kemp, chose not to seek the nomination.

1996:

The Republicans nominated Bob Dole, a party veteran from Kansas and US Senator. He was the previous runner up in the last open primary (1988) and prior to that was a vice presidential candidate (1976).

1992

The Democrats nominated a fresh faced, multi-termed governor from Arkansas (Bill Clinton) who was the keynote speaker at their previous convention. Their previous vice presidential candidate, Lloyd Bentsen, chose to not seek the nomination

1988

The Democrats nominated a fresh faced, multi termed governor from Massachusetts (Mike Dukakis). Their previous vice presidential candidate, Geraldine Ferarro, chose to not seek the nomination.

1984

The Democrats nominated former Vice President Walter Mondale, a party veteran from Minnesota who was the vice presidential nominee twice previously (1976, 80)

1980

The Republicans nominated two term governor, Ronald Reagan, a party veteran from California who was the runner up in the previous primary (1976).

1976

The Democrats nominated Jimmy Carter, a fresh faced, one term governor from Georgia.

1972

The Democrats nominated George McGovern, a one term senator from South Dakota who only got 25% of the vote in a crowded field that contained both the previous presidential nominee (Hubert Humphrey) and previous vice presidential nominee (Edmund Muskie).

1968

The Republicans nominated former vice president, Richard Nixon of California. Nixon was a previous nominee of the party for president (1960) but lost and then subsequently lost in his bid to be governor of California (1962).

The Democrats incumbant president, Lyndon Johnson chose not to run for re-election. His vice president, Hubert Humprhey from Minnesota, was the party's nominee but Robert Kennedy would have been the nominee had he not been assassinated.

1964

The Republicans nominated Barry Goldwater, a two term Senator from Arizona. The previous vice presidential candidate, Senator Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. from Massachusetts and Governor Nelson Rockefeller fo New York split the liberal/moderate vote in the Republican primary, allowing Goldwater, who had the undivided support of the conservative wing, to win the nomination.

1960

The Democrats nominated John Kennedy, a young, fresh faced US Senator from Massachusetts.



So for the Republicans in 2012, you would have to consider the following:

1.) Former nominees for national office: Sarah Palin, Dan Quayle

2.) Previous runner up(s) for presidential nomination: Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney

3.) A party veteran: Senator Lamarr Alexander, Senator Richard Lugar, Senator Kit Bond, Newt Gingrich, Jeb Bush

4.) A governor: Bobby Jindal, Mitch Daniels, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Perry, Bob Riley, Charlie Crist

5.) A voice of the conservative wing: Senator Jim DeMint, Representative Mike Pence


Sadly, I see the Republicans offering up a crap candidate in 2012, and probably one that isn't even a movementarian of conservativism.

Our farm team is being groomed for 2016: Jindal, Palin, Kasich, DeMint.

[gator]

My goodness, I hope Crist doesn't run. I lost all respect for him when I saw him backing Obama's stimulus plan. Truth of the matter is, Jeb Bush would probably have been a better prez than either his father or brother, but I don't ever see that being a possibility. His dad was a one termer, and libs will never let the country forget (even if it is somewhat misguided) how "bad" the Bush years were. Even I have my issues with G.W., in that he was not fiscally conservative. His brother, Jeb, however, was pretty decent as FL's governor, IMO. He pissed off a lot of government workers here in FL because he forced difficult cuts in the budget.

My personal favorite would be Newt. I think he has been the closest thing to Reagon, since Reagon. I think this guy actually has a vision, and that is what conservatives need right now, IMO. I think he was instrumental in the '94 takeover, and the guy seems to express himself and his vision clearly.

[zilla]

Tom Ridge is a good pick but the Republican Party doesn't have room for people that are pro choice and aren't in step with James Dobson. So with that said, enjoy losing elections.

[Wolvrin704]

I think that no matter who comes to the forefront we don't need 1 of the following; a retread old politician or someone tied to GWB. If the Repubs want to put someone in the oval office they will need fresh blood, but if its someone with any ties to Bush, the Dems and media will have a field day and any pointing at the failures of the Obama administration will be laid squarely on the candidate via being tied to Bush.

Honestly its awful early but I just don't see any strong viable candidates at this time. But that can change quickly once campaign season begins, look what happened with Obama.

[The Michigan Man]

I think that no matter who comes to the forefront we don't need 1 of the following; a retread old politician or someone tied to GWB. If the Repubs want to put someone in the oval office they will need fresh blood, but if its someone with any ties to Bush, the Dems and media will have a field day and any pointing at the failures of the Obama administration will be laid squarely on the candidate via being tied to Bush.

Honestly its awful early but I just don't see any strong viable candidates at this time. But that can change quickly once campaign season begins, look what happened with Obama.

That's the unpredictable nature of presidential candidates. In 2005, was Obama on anyone's radar as a serious candidate?

I have a lot of respect for McCain (and earlier Dole), but enough of the ancient candidates. I think Romney will be a serious contender, maybe Rudy, with the wildcard Bobby Jindahl (governor from Louisiana) figuring in somewhere. Jindahl has the youth and the minority factor to capture the younger votes, and since experience is obviously not a big factor in electing the President anymore, could have a decent shot at it. My bet is that it will be somebody that no one could have predicted in 2009.

[amazinblue]

IMO, Romney is the front runner at this time. He's experienced, intelligent, and understands both business and healthcare. He seems far more qualified than anyone else on the list.

[gator]

I have a lot of respect for McCain (and earlier Dole), but enough of the ancient candidates.


No joke! Can we get someone who doesn't already look three days past dead, or someone who doesn't show up a week after the elections doing ED commercials (Viagra). Talk about your rigged elections...how in the hell did these guys capture the candidacy. It's almost like republicans were throwing the election before we even voted. Not too hard to believe since I can hardly see any difference between the two parties anymore....except on national security and social issues.

[Medic]

Romney is a fraud. Dig into his record as Governor of Massachusetts.

[amazinblue]

Romney is a fraud. Dig into his record as Governor of Massachusetts.

Medic,

I was a supporter of McCain's in 2000 and 2008. And, I don't know what you base your opinion of Romney as a "fraud" on - but, I'd welcome understanding it better. I do admit, when Romney campaigned in Michigan and talked about "keeping these auto jobs in Michigan", I knew he was full of bs and would say anything.

It's interesting to note that Obama never said anything like this. Oh, it's also interesting to note that Obama never really campaigned in Michigan either.

If you have insights about his record as Governor of Massachusetts, please share.

[byebyelloyd]

i wouldn't worry about it much. the obama administration is fucking up at a record pace and people are already realizing they threw away their vote in '08 to the worst lies in decades. anyway, i refused to vote in "08" for the lesser of two morons, and i'm still unclear on which candidate sits where, but obama made my choice in 2010 easy, just hit the big "R" and go about my life. with the way governor strickland, a dem, is pissing off people here in ohio, democrats are going to be slaughtered here in coming years and theres a growing trend even the socialist nazi media can't seem to stem that people see they made a huge mistake.

[zilla]

Romney is a fraud. Dig into his record as Governor of Massachusetts.

And that is too bad. He was the type of person I could vote for but yes he is now a fraud in that he had to change his beliefs to make the nutbag Jesus freak wing of the Republican party happy. Same with McCain. If he had someone he actaully wanted on his ticket (as opposed to making the loons happy with Palin) I think he would have won. But you can't have a pro-choice Republican now can you that doesn't run his mouth about morals.

There are so many people out there that are willing to vote Republican but can't when you see people like the gov of South Carolina talk about the bible and live the way he does.

Kick the mouth breathing rednecks out of the party (and their supporters) and you might be able to return to power. If not, enjoy winning Texas as the only state with any high amount of electoral votes

[Medic]

And that is too bad. He was the type of person I could vote for but yes he is now a fraud in that he had to change his beliefs to make the nutbag Jesus freak wing of the Republican party happy.


I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on *how* Romney has appealed to the "Jesus Freak Wing" of the Republican party and how he lost your vote over (apparently) a single issue?

Your other assertions are laughable as even without a leader or party figurehead, the Republicans will probably make some modest gains in the next election as the stench of corruption and idiocy reaches new heights in the current administration. The only way Obama saves himself and the dems is if the economy is strong.

[zilla]

i wouldn't worry about it much. the obama administration is fucking up at a record pace and people are already realizing they threw away their vote in '08 to the worst lies in decades. anyway, i refused to vote in "08 for the lesser of two morons, and i'm still unclear on which candidate sits where, but obama made my choice in 2010 easy, just hit the big "R" and go about my life. with the way governor strickland, a dem, is pissing off people here in ohio, democrats are going to be slaughtered here in coming years and theres a growing trend even the socialist nazi media can't seem to stem that people see they made a huge mistake.


I recently saw the movie the Hangover. There was a line in movie that said "you are just too stupid to insult". I feel this way after reading your posts.

[zilla]

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on *how* Romney has appealed to the "Jesus Freak Wing" of the Republican party and how he lost your vote over (apparently) a single issue?

Your other assertions are laughable as even without a leader or party figurehead, the Republicans will probably make some modest gains in the next election as the stench of corruption and idiocy reaches new heights in the current administration. The only way Obama saves himself and the dems is if the economy is strong.

He was pro-choice but has now "evolved" to a pro-life stance. Against stem cell funding but was once for it. Was a supporter of gay rights including them serving in the military openly now is against it. If you agree with his current views or not, I think it is very clear he is not a man of principle and knows the only way to get nominated in the party of Mike Furley is that you need to appeal to the snake handlers.

[Mike Furley]

He was pro-choice but has now "evolved" to a pro-life stance. Against stem cell funding but was once for it. Was a supporter of gay rights including them serving in the military openly now is against it. If you agree with his current views or not, I think it is very clear he is not a man of principle and knows the only way to get nominated in the party of Mike Furley is that you need to appeal to the snake handlers.


For shits and giggles Zilla, do you agree with Barack Obama in that if a baby should happen to survive an attempted abortion it should not be provided medical care?

[zilla]

For shits and giggles Zilla, do you agree with Barack Obama in that if a baby should happen to survive an attempted abortion it should not be provided medical care?

Do you ever look things up? Ever? There was and still is laws on the books in Illinois providing this protection. The bill brought up by the snake handlers only intention was to introduce language to take on Roe vs Wade and all abortions.

[gator]

Do you ever look things up? Ever? There was and still is laws on the books in Illinois providing this protection. The bill brought up by the snake handlers only intention was to introduce language to take on Roe vs Wade and all abortions.

Same could be said for you too 'ol buddy. I imagine that by "snake handlers" you are referring to the religious right? Funny, I've been to many churches in my life (most of the people I have encountered there are Pro-lifers) and I've never seen anyone handle snakes. Derogatory comments, that are inaccurate at best, are so ingrained into your liberal debating skill set that you don't even realize it.

[zilla]

Same could be said for you too 'ol buddy. I imagine that by "snake handlers" you are referring to the religious right? Funny, I've been to many churches in my life (most of the people I have encountered there are Pro-lifers) and I've never seen anyone handle snakes. Derogatory comments, that are inaccurate at best, are so ingrained into your liberal debating skill set that you don't even realize it.

So you admit I have a skill set?

[Mike Furley]

Do you ever look things up? Ever? There was and still is laws on the books in Illinois providing this protection. The bill brought up by the snake handlers only intention was to introduce language to take on Roe vs Wade and all abortions.


Yes, I do look things up. You can too.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html

Whether the bill was brought up by the "snake handlers" to introduce language to take on Roe v Wade and all abortions is a matter of dispute between proponents and opponents. What is not in dispute are Obama's own words and actions regarding the various bills that were introduced in 2001, 2002, and 2003.

[Medic]

If you have insights about his record as Governor of Massachusetts, please share.

He torched Ron Paul's auditing of the Fed idea (which may still happen). He endorsed legislation in Massachusetts that shut down private (see: religious) adoption clinics because they wouldn't adopt to homosexual couples, for obvious reasons.

While claiming he's never raised taxes, doubled most processing fees in his state to make up budget shortfalls, introduced a state tax on commerce exchanges on the internet (originating from Mass.) and after being busted twice for using illegals to mow his lawn, finally fired the landscaping company.

My feeling is the guy is too calculating. While he served Massachusetts well in his term there (for the most part), I think there have been too many instances of the guy changing his mind. You can look them up on non-partisan websites.

Zilla: He supports stem cell research but vetoed a bill on it in his state because it allowed the cloning of human embryos and also supports using leftover human embryos from fertility clinics. The state legislature overrode his veto to pass the bill so he limited the funding for the program. That doesn't seem like an anti stem cell platform to me.

[Medic]

So you admit I have a skill set?

If trolling is a skill set then yes, you're highly skilled.

[Wolvrin704]

And that is too bad. He was the type of person I could vote for but yes he is now a fraud in that he had to change his beliefs to make the nutbag Jesus freak wing of the Republican party happy. Same with McCain. If he had someone he actaully wanted on his ticket (as opposed to making the loons happy with Palin) I think he would have won. But you can't have a pro-choice Republican now can you that doesn't run his mouth about morals.

There are so many people out there that are willing to vote Republican but can't when you see people like the gov of South Carolina talk about the bible and live the way he does.

Kick the mouth breathing rednecks out of the party (and their supporters) and you might be able to return to power. If not, enjoy winning Texas as the only state with any high amount of electoral votes

If believing in Jesus as my Lord and Savior makes a person a "Jesus freak" then count me in. But I hate to tell you most evangelical Christians won't vote for Romney just because he's a Mormon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbB0QrBIs9k&feature=PlayList&p=2773CD6B449A27FA&index=1

[zilla]

If trolling is a skill set then yes, you're highly skilled.

Just because I won't let you nut bags get away with lying time and time again don't confuse it with trolling.

You want to see real trolls say hi to Furley the Buckeye and Gator the Gator.
God knows who you pull for in football, as all I ever see from you is boring posts about the economy on a football site. Get a life loser.

[Wolvrin704]

Just because I won't let you nut bags get away with lying time and time again don't confuse it with trolling.

You want to see real trolls say hi to Furley the Buckeye and Gator the Gator.
God knows who you pull for in football, as all I ever see from you is boring posts about the economy on a football site. Get a life loser.

Of all the trolls here you mention Furley and Gator? They are the furthest from being trolls as they actually have a real knowledge of football and make posts that actually add value rather than nonsense. The real trolls are NUT, Don, Plus 1, Rad and RTB. :rolleyes:

Who is lying? Sometimes it appears truth is in the eye of the beholder. In other words people read into things what they want to and it goes both ways.

[Medic]

Just because I won't let you nut bags get away with lying time and time again don't confuse it with trolling.

God knows who you pull for in football, as all I ever see from you is boring posts about the economy on a football site. Get a life loser.

That sure is a convenient way of saying you can't argue with me on facts. You frequently speak in platitudes with no evidence to back up your idiotic rantings AND I see that I've hit a nerve.

Boring posts? That hurts :( But then again, coming from someone as intellectually lazy as yourself who uses a trial lawyer's blog for economic references I shouldn't be surprised. Style is always better than substance right? I can't believe I'm going to defend Furley but even for an OSU monkey, his politics are fairly sound.

Go Blue :)

[byebyelloyd]

I recently saw the movie the Hangover. There was a line in movie that said "you are just too stupid to insult". I feel this way after reading your posts.

yeah, the true genius you are can't seem to see that history is repeating itself. all your hopeful thinking in the world isn't going to change that in your lifetime. the 2010 election will be here soon enough, then you can watch for yourself which states support the most dishonest president since nixon, until then moron, fight the good fight.

[byebyelloyd]

He was pro-choice but has now "evolved" to a pro-life stance. Against stem cell funding but was once for it. Was a supporter of gay rights including them serving in the military openly now is against it. If you agree with his current views or not, I think it is very clear he is not a man of principle and knows the only way to get nominated in the party of Mike Furley is that you need to appeal to the snake handlers.

so in no way was obama elected on tax cut promises and the promise of a more open government and in less than 4 months, he changed his stance on both issues among several others. wake up nazi.

[amazinblue]

He torched Ron Paul's auditing of the Fed idea (which may still happen). He endorsed legislation in Massachusetts that shut down private (see: religious) adoption clinics because they wouldn't adopt to homosexual couples, for obvious reasons.

While claiming he's never raised taxes, doubled most processing fees in his state to make up budget shortfalls, introduced a state tax on commerce exchanges on the internet (originating from Mass.) and after being busted twice for using illegals to mow his lawn, finally fired the landscaping company.

My feeling is the guy is too calculating. While he served Massachusetts well in his term there (for the most part), I think there have been too many instances of the guy changing his mind. You can look them up on non-partisan websites.

Zilla: He supports stem cell research but vetoed a bill on it in his state because it allowed the cloning of human embryos and also supports using leftover human embryos from fertility clinics. The state legislature overrode his veto to pass the bill so he limited the funding for the program. That doesn't seem like an anti stem cell platform to me.

Medic,

Thanks for the post... I was a supporter of McCain in both 2000 and 2008 - and, right now, I think that whether I like him or not - Romney is the current front runner in the GOP - simply because no one else is out there. Palin just doesn't have the mental horsepower required for the job.

[amazinblue]

Same with McCain. If he had someone he actaully wanted on his ticket (as opposed to making the loons happy with Palin) I think he would have won.

Zilla,

I've got news for you - no one - not George Washington nor Abraham Lincoln would have won this past election for the Republican Party. There was this albatross around the neck of the GOP candidate called "the George W. Bush legacy" - that really couldn't have been overcome.

Your political insights really are not.

[Medic]

Medic,

Thanks for the post... I was a supporter of McCain in both 2000 and 2008 - and, right now, I think that whether I like him or not - Romney is the current front runner in the GOP - simply because no one else is out there. Palin just doesn't have the mental horsepower required for the job.

I'd take Palin any day of the week for a few reasons. The left is trying so incredibly hard to destroy her, they are still raising ethics complaints (every single one of the 20 against her so far has been dropped) against her even though she's out of office. Why? She must be doing something right to draw such ire.

Yes she is plain spoken and unpolished. But if you're unwilling to start voting the "Political Class" out of office and upset the status quo you can't bitch when the pols serve more of their own self interests than the people's. Everyone's eyes should have been opened wide to the unmistakable stink of corruption all over the Fed and Congress when the shit hit the fan last summer. The amount of political glad handing between Wall Street and the U.S. government would have the founding fathers rolling in their graves. And so it goes, one set of rules for "them" and another for the rest of "us". Anyway, Palin was a solid governor for her state and quite frankly, I don't see how she could do any worse than the current wonderkid at the helm with a myriad of international gaafs under his belt already (bowing to the Saudi king is my favorite).

It's almost like media killed the political star. Do you honestly think Lincoln (who was a horrid public speaker) or Washington (who had a studder) could get elected in the current political climate? Hell no. We now elect American political idols just without Ryan Seacrest MC'ing. We wisk them into seats of incredible power that most of them are *very* determined to never give up. Even if it means gaming the system. California is a case study and a warning to everyone who just votes for whoever has the (D) or (R) next to their name.

[The Michigan Man]

I'd take Palin any day of the week for a few reasons. The left is trying so incredibly hard to destroy her, they are still raising ethics complaints (every single one of the 20 against her so far has been dropped) against her even though she's out of office. Why? She must be doing something right to draw such ire.

Yes she is plain spoken and unpolished. But if you're unwilling to start voting the "Political Class" out of office and upset the status quo you can't bitch when the pols serve more of their own self interests than the people's. Everyone's eyes should have been opened wide to the unmistakable stink of corruption all over the Fed and Congress when the shit hit the fan last summer. The amount of political glad handing between Wall Street and the U.S. government would have the founding fathers rolling in their graves. And so it goes, one set of rules for "them" and another for the rest of "us". Anyway, Palin was a solid governor for her state and quite frankly, I don't see how she could do any worse than the current wonderkid at the helm with a myriad of international gaafs under his belt already (bowing to the Saudi king is my favorite).

It's almost like media killed the political star. Do you honestly think Lincoln (who was a horrid public speaker) or Washington (who had a studder) could get elected in the current political climate? Hell no. We now elect American political idols just without Ryan Seacrest MC'ing. We wisk them into seats of incredible power that most of them are *very* determined to never give up. Even if it means gaming the system. California is a case study and a warning to everyone who just votes for whoever has the (D) or (R) next to their name.

Very nice, Medic. In today's world, if the candidate isn't from a well to do background or doesn't hide behind teleprompters, the general public has no use for them. Palin was a genuine (albeit unpolished) candidate from a "flyover" country with a small town dialect and mannerisms, which doesn't go over with the elitist media unless that person is liberal (compare Palin's quirks to the country boy nature of Bill Clinton, which the media found to be charming and adorable).

Palin was much more qualified to be Chief Executive because she actually worked in an executive position as governor, overseeing a police force, a national guard, understood budgets, etc., unlike Barry Hussein, whose service as a state senator left him ill prepared for the realities of the Presidency.

[zilla]

"compare Palin's quirks to the country boy nature of Bill Clinton"


Rhodes Scholar vs switched schools countless times to end up finally at Idaho.

This is a woman that thought she would work in the Senate as VP. This is a woman that could not name one single Supreme Court ruling other than Roe v Wade. Yeah she is qualified. Do any of you know how out of touch you are supporting her? The entire country laughs at you. :D:D:D

I beg you loons to nominate her. Please! Maybe if she is elected she will cut all your taxes and gator can move from the double wide and bye bye lloyd can visit the dentist. The rest of you seem like productive members of society, can't believe you want swamp trash in your party.

[zilla]

Funny website that normal people got a kick out of during the election.

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

Please view with caution as it insults one of your idols. Remember as the country laughs at you guys (and the people you vote for) the greatest joy we have is the fact you no longer have a voice in Washington.

[Medic]

Do any of you know how out of touch you are supporting her? The entire country laughs at you. :D:D:D

I beg you loons to nominate her. Please!

It's funny I remember conservatives saying the same thing about Obama and look how that worked out. Careful what you wish for.

[byebyelloyd]

"compare Palin's quirks to the country boy nature of Bill Clinton"


Rhodes Scholar vs switched schools countless times to end up finally at Idaho.

This is a woman that thought she would work in the Senate as VP. This is a woman that could not name one single Supreme Court ruling other than Roe v Wade. Yeah she is qualified. Do any of you know how out of touch you are supporting her? The entire country laughs at you. :D:D:D

I beg you loons to nominate her. Please! Maybe if she is elected she will cut all your taxes and gator can move from the double wide and bye bye lloyd can visit the dentist. The rest of you seem like productive members of society, can't believe you want swamp trash in your party.

wow, now this fucking moron manifests ideas in his own head to bring up a reason to insult two americans who can clearly see the mistakes all made by democrats that led to the current economic collapse. first off, dipshit, i don't like palin any more than i know obama can not lead a parade let alone a country and you spewing your venom over the shelling of your president only because you're hoping against all reality that he is not actually a piece of shit like every politician in the last century is the single most idiotic concept i can imagine.

GOD ALMIGHTY, LORD JESUS, THANK YOU FOR SENDING US BARRACK TO SAVE US ALL FROM OURSELVES.

[byebyelloyd]

Funny website that normal people got a kick out of during the election.

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

Please view with caution as it insults one of your idols. Remember as the country laughs at you guys (and the people you vote for) the greatest joy we have is the fact you no longer have a voice in Washington.

thankfully with the democrats ineptitude on full display, they will be slaughtered in 2010(obviously) and obama can wait out the rest of his political career(2012) keeping his lies to himself.

[Medic]

BBL you're entirely too angry about all this. You need to relax, let's go have a 120% tax increased beverage at the local pub.

[zilla]

BBL you're entirely too angry about all this. You need to relax, let's go have a 120% tax increased beverage at the local pub.

All this anger and yet too lazy to even vote.

[The Michigan Man]

"compare Palin's quirks to the country boy nature of Bill Clinton"


Rhodes Scholar vs switched schools countless times to end up finally at Idaho.

This is a woman that thought she would work in the Senate as VP. This is a woman that could not name one single Supreme Court ruling other than Roe v Wade. Yeah she is qualified. Do any of you know how out of touch you are supporting her? The entire country laughs at you. :D:D:D

I beg you loons to nominate her. Please! Maybe if she is elected she will cut all your taxes and gator can move from the double wide and bye bye lloyd can visit the dentist. The rest of you seem like productive members of society, can't believe you want swamp trash in your party.

Just the sort of predictable elitist liberal response I expected. Its funny how everyone thought highly of her before the clones who can't think for themselves just swallowed everything the liberal media shoveled down their throats.

I'm still waiting to hear how Obama is qualified - the Illinois state senate & community planning experience aren't traditionally a springboard to the highest office. Planning his political career in the living room of convicted terrorist Bill Aires and attending a church of a radical racist lunatic like Rev Wright somehow endeared you libbies to this guy.

[byebyelloyd]

BBL you're entirely too angry about all this. You need to relax, let's go have a 120% tax increased beverage at the local pub.

don't confuse anger with the fact that i'm way too excited over all that healthcare i'm going to get. but this moron dem nazi wishes to get into a pissing match and starts flinging insults because he can't stand to see someone disagree coupled with the fact obama is probably already the worst president in U.S. history and you get this whole bitchfest.

[Medic]

I'm not ready to call Obama the worst anything until he serves out his term. Buchanan and Harding were the worst stewards of the Presidency in history. I will say this however, Obama is well on his way to earning the distinction with the bastardization of the consitution well under way.

If cap and trade and universal health care fail, his economic policies will be a wash. If they pass, I am pretty sure you will see a run on businesses the likes of which we've never seen in history.

[byebyelloyd]

I'm not ready to call Obama the worst anything until he serves out his term. Buchanan and Harding were the worst stewards of the Presidency in history. I will say this however, Obama is well on his way to earning the distinction with the bastardization of the consitution well under way.

If cap and trade and universal health care fail, his economic policies will be a wash. If they pass, I am pretty sure you will see a run on businesses the likes of which we've never seen in history.

not me. i'll quit my job, father countless children and go on welfare immediately. hell, i'll clear 75,000 a year from the comfort of my recliner, free healthcare, housing assistance, the list goes on, how can i lose?

[zilla]

"Planning his political career in the living room of convicted terrorist Bill Aires and attending a church of a radical racist lunatic like Rev Wright somehow endeared you libbies to this guy."


Speaking of mindless clone talking points, MM wins todays award. At least you voted unlike lazy bye bye lloyd.

[zilla]

I'm not ready to call Obama the worst anything until he serves out his term. Buchanan and Harding were the worst stewards of the Presidency in history. I will say this however, Obama is well on his way to earning the distinction with the bastardization of the consitution well under way.

If cap and trade and universal health care fail, his economic policies will be a wash. If they pass, I am pretty sure you will see a run on businesses the likes of which we've never seen in history.


But you have no problem attacking him from his first day in office, how very American of you. As all you nutjobs said during the Bush years "you aint like the president you did done need to move to canada".

[zilla]

If believing in Jesus as my Lord and Savior makes a person a "Jesus freak" then count me in. But I hate to tell you most evangelical Christians won't vote for Romney just because he's a Mormon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbB0QrBIs9k&feature=PlayList&p=2773CD6B449A27FA&index=1


No believing in Jesus does not make you a Jesus freak but the below does.

1. Belief in the rapture.
2. If you use words like "witness" when talking to somone about god.
3. Any bumpersticker that talks about god. This includes the Jesus fish.
4. You think Republican's are the party of god.
5. You are a Promise Keeper. I mean could you be more pussy whiped?
6. Your name is Tim Tebow
7. Announce you are leaving this website because of you belief in god. (Don't laugh in happend)
8. You think the Pope doesn't play with himself.

[Wolvrin704]

No believing in Jesus does not make you a Jesus freak but the below does.

1. Belief in the rapture.
2. If you use words like "witness" when talking to somone about god.
3. Any bumpersticker that talks about god. This includes the Jesus fish.
4. You think Republican's are the party of god.
5. You are a Promise Keeper. I mean could you be more pussy whiped?
6. Your name is Tim Tebow
7. Announce you are leaving this website because of you belief in god. (Don't laugh in happend)
8. You think the Pope doesn't play with himself.

1. Its in the Bible and most Christians believe it, kind of a core belief. So whats the issue with it?
2. Don't see the point about using the word "witness".
3. I won't have any bumperstickers on any of my cars but especially not my Mustang. With that said whats any different than people having bumperstickers on their car about anything they like, value or believe in?
4. No party is the party of God. But I as many Christians vote by my conscience.
5. Not a Promise Keeper but what is wrong with it?
6. I for one highly respect Tim Tebow. How many other college football players will spend their time helping people in 3rd world countries? How many people on here would do it?
7. I think you're talking about me. I left for a few months, not because of my belief but because of the changes He was making in my life. In the past 3 years my life has dramatically changed for the good and I give Him the glory for it. Its nothing I did on my own I can garauntee you that.
8. I'm not Catholic so couldn't care less. But we are all sinners who have come short of the glory of God.

To me a Jesus Freak is someone who has sold out to God completely despite what this world thinks. I count the things of this world all as loss compared to the glory of Him who shed His blood for my salvation. Compared to what He has done for me the least I can do is stand up for Him.

If people on here don't like me because of my belief in Jesus, so be it. Its not going to hurt my feelings but if the subject comes up I'll let you know what I believe in and where I stand.

[Medic]

But you have no problem attacking him from his first day in office, how very American of you. As all you nutjobs said during the Bush years "you aint like the president you did done need to move to canada".

Careful Zilla, you're treading very closely to saying I am un-American for criticizing my president. I remember that was a huge buga boo for libs during the last administration.

I'd like for you to point out where I attacked Obama from his inauguration forward. Let me save you the time because you can't. I tried to have an open mind but by the time March rolled around, I started looking around at all the batshit crazy insane things going on and felt the time for supporting his initiatives were done. Actually, the day he signed the bailout bill I was done with him.

The government is in the banking, car, and utilities business now and I'm pretty sure the framers would be yelling collectively saying "what the fuck?" right about now. Ask yourself this, do you think the U.S. government would have bailed out Smith Barney or Old Mututal in the late 1800s when the US economy was absolute shit (They didn't and wow look! Those companies survived!)? Was it really the intent of the framers to let government have managing control in private corporations?

No.

So I have no problem going after Obama. A man who uses the constitution for toilet paper in his daily work, he's making Jimmy Carter look good.

http://media.fukung.net/images/17317/47de12da463d4f7f52ccf003e44b43ca.jpg

[zilla]

"So I have no problem going after Obama. A man who uses the constitution for toilet paper in his daily work"


You say this over and over again but where are your examples? The government bailing out industries is against the constitution? Where is that written? Once again what are your solutions? I gurantee if we let the economy go without a bailout neither one of us would have jobs right now.

If you really want to see a complete disregard for the constition look at the Bush/Cheaney 8 years. The illegal NSA wiretap should have forced him from office but the dems don't have the courage to take on such matters.

I leave you with this:

"The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper”
GWB

[Medic]

You say this over and over again but where are your examples? The government bailing out industries is against the constitution? Where is that written?
GWB

US Constitution

Article 1, Section 8
the People have given Congress the power, “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes,”

What this means is Congress has the power to regulate commerce, not to participate in commerce as a purchaser and seller of private property for a definitively private purpose.

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 7
"No money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in consequence of appropriation made by law"

What this means is Congress lacks any constitutional authority to grant the Executive branch any legal authority to directly participate in commerce as a buyer or seller of private property (as opposed to "regulating" commerce) and that Congress also lacks any authority to utilize public (taxpayer) funds for definitively private, i.e., non-public purposes. The government has no authority to use public funds to guarantee a loan between the privately held insurance firms and the privately held Federal Reserve Bank.

And lastly to sum up this desecration of our founding documents is Robert E. Levy:

the bailout quite clearly violates the Constitution's separation-of-powers principle-in particular, what has become known as the nondelegation doctrine, which states that Congress may not delegate its legislative power to any other entity, including the Cabinet departments of the executive branch. Article I, section 1 of the Constitution states, "All legislative Powers ... shall be vested in a Congress." A plain reading of that text shows that lawmaking is for the legislative branch, which does not include the Treasury Department. Yet when Congress authorized the bailout package, it gave Secretary Henry Paul son Jr. unprecedented power to act as a super-legislature

He absolutely nails it. Congress must show not only that a federal program is necessary, but also that it is proper-that is, the program does not violate other foundational principles, such as federalism, separation of powers, and limited government. Congress is no way, shape or form made that case.

I hope Zilla made it this far, I know crazy things like facts and our constitution probably bore the shit out of him. You are all witnessing the death of our country in real time, if we don't take a stand now and start electing people democrat or republican who honor the framers intentions and stop feeding us this "living document" bullshit we are screwed.

[zilla]

You failed again. The question as to whether the bailout was constitutional comes from the Bush/Paulson package back in October where he wanted zero oversight from congress. The Obama bailouts pass with flying colors.

I look forward to your next cut and paste from the CATO website. LMAO :D

[Medic]

The quote from Robert Levy is pulled from the Cato institute. The Constitutional arguments and translation are pulled from the Virginia law school website and taxfoundation.org. I guess I should start sourcing so I don't confuse you. If there's a cross reference from any of those it certainly doesn't diminish the strength of the argument.

The arguments tie directly in chorus with the second bailout that passed, in fact the arguments are even stronger against the Obama bailout, takeover of GM, and what has amounted to essentially a seizure of the banking system. The funniest part of your response is the onus isn't on me to prove anything I made my case, it's really on you to show where congress had the authority under TARP to buy a car company (or call a car company a bank) or non mortgage-backed securities. Good luck with that.


The question as to whether the bailout was constitutional comes from the Bush/Paulson package back in October where he wanted zero oversight from congress
LOL! The question of constitutionality applies to all bailouts that use taxpayer money which, if you had watched any of Gator's videos show that clearly there is STILL no oversight. Your attempt to dismiss my argument fails with flying colors.


You say this over and over again but where are your examples? The government bailing out industries is against the constitution?
I answered your question directly by referencing the appropriate articles of the constitution. The Bush/Obama bailouts both fail the constitutional test whether Paulson or Geitner is at the helm. Keep trying.....

[Mich97c]

The quote from Robert Levy is pulled from the Cato institute. The Constitutional arguments and translation are pulled from the Virginia law school website and taxfoundation.org. I guess I should start sourcing so I don't confuse you. If there's a cross reference from any of those it certainly doesn't diminish the strength of the argument.

The arguments tie directly in chorus with the second bailout that passed, in fact the arguments are even stronger against the Obama bailout, takeover of GM, and what has amounted to essentially a seizure of the banking system. The funniest part of your response is the onus isn't on me to prove anything I made my case, it's really on you to show where congress had the authority under TARP to buy a car company (or call a car company a bank) or non mortgage-backed securities. Good luck with that.


LOL! The question of constitutionality applies to all bailouts that use taxpayer money which, if you had watched any of Gator's videos show that clearly there is STILL no oversight. Your attempt to dismiss my argument fails with flying colors.


I answered your question directly by referencing the appropriate articles of the constitution. The Bush/Obama bailouts both fail the constitutional test whether Paulson or Geitner is at the helm. Keep trying.....

Is it really a takeover when all these companies in question were days away from complete bankrupty? These companies came begging to the government for help because they ran them into the ground.

If you sell your soul to the devil and then wake up in hell, do you blame the devil or yourself.

[zilla]

Is it really a takeover when all these companies in question were days away from complete bankrupty? These companies came begging to the government for help because they ran them into the ground.

If you sell your soul to the devil and then wake up in hell, do you blame the devil or yourself.

Exactly, what medic (on purpose) does not mention is that the government did not approach them they approach the government. Medic acts like Obama came in and day one said "hey for fun I am going to end the free markets". The bail outs were needed and I am thankful they happend.

I can pull cut and paste jobs too medic to try and prove a point for any subject on Earth, it does not make it correct however. When Warren Buffet thinks it was needed I will take his opinion over some hack job cut and paste artist like you anyday.

[zilla]

"The funniest part of your response is the onus isn't on me to prove anything I made my case, it's really on you to show where congress had the authority under TARP to buy a car company (or call a car company a bank) or non mortgage-backed securities. Good luck with that."


Wrong again Mr. cut and past, that is on you. The vast majority of business leaders, lawyers and economists think the bailout was needed and legal, so when you throw in some cuts and paste jobs from a very small minority opinion you must prove it. And prove it you have not done.

Instead of wasting your tears on this website, how about you file a lawsuit challenging the bailouts? Or are you like bye bye lloyd and just too lazy?

[Mich97c]

Exactly, what medic (on purpose) does not mention is that the government did not approach them they approach the government. Medic acts like Obama came in and day one said "hey for fun I am going to end the free markets". The bail outs were needed and I am thankful they happend.

I can pull cut and paste jobs too medic to try and prove a point for any subject on Earth, it does not make it correct however. When Warren Buffet thinks it was needed I will take his opinion over some hack job cut and paste artist like you anyday.

Medic's arguement is that the government should of stayed out of it all together and let the free market dicate what happens - I don't think he's taking sides. However, I do argee somewhat with you that they were needed, I just question how it's being done.

[Medic]

Exactly, what medic (on purpose) does not mention is that the government did not approach them they approach the government. Medic acts like Obama came in and day one said "hey for fun I am going to end the free markets". The bail outs were needed and I am thankful they happend.

I can pull cut and paste jobs too medic to try and prove a point for any subject on Earth, it does not make it correct however. When Warren Buffet thinks it was needed I will take his opinion over some hack job cut and paste artist like you anyday.

Who cares who approached who? Completely and totally irrelevant to the argument of the legality of the bailouts or not. You can't prove the bailouts were needed, much less useful. And for once, I would applaud ANY "cut and pastes" supporting your arguments as you have yet to provide anything substantial to support *any* of your claims.


The vast majority of business leaders, lawyers and economists think the bailout was needed and legal, so when you throw in some cuts and paste jobs from a very small minority opinion you must prove it. And prove it you have not done.


You challenged me to find where the bailouts weren't legal and I did. I'm glad you've conceeded that point as you have yet to provide anything supporting your argument against it. So when people were calling congress telling them "no bailouts" almost at an almost 9 to 1 ratio I guess that puts me in a small minority? Keep deluding yourself. The vast majority of business leaders and economists didn't support the bailouts much less recognize them as legal, where is your evidence of that?


Instead of wasting your tears on this website, how about you file a lawsuit challenging the bailouts?

What's done is done unfortunately and the precedent has been set. So as long as you can find a federal judge sympathetic to your cause, anything goes in Washington. There's still one lawsuit left, which will probably win for a misappropriation of funds (get ready to hear that a lot):

http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/06/02/news/nation/doc4a1f3c4a79514876726233.txt

Edit:

When Warren Buffet thinks it was needed I will take his opinion over some hack job cut and paste artist like you anyday
Your crushing blow reference is Warren Buffet? http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/65496.html
The single largest benficiary of the bailout .....supports it! What a shock! I mean next thing you'll tell me is union leaders support union dues. NO WAY. When did this happen? Or that Politicians don't support term limits! STUNNING!

[Mich97c]

What's done is done unfortunately and the precedent has been set. So as long as you can find a federal judge sympathetic to your cause, anything goes in Washington. There's still one lawsuit left, which will probably win for a misappropriation of funds (get ready to hear that a lot):



The precedent of government bailouts was set way back in early 1900's with the railroad bailouts (we still own Amtrack). The government has taken control of everything from steel mills car makers, banks and coal mines. Face it, we haven't had a free market system since the government broke up Standard Oil.

[Medic]

The precedent of government bailouts was set way back in early 1900's with the railroad bailouts (we still own Amtrack). The government has taken control of everything from steel mills car makers, banks and coal mines. Face it, we haven't had a free market system since the government broke up Standard Oil.

Good point. However I would argue that expanding central control of previously private enterprises is not a good thing. Amtrak loses billions every year.

edit: wasn't Standard Oil an anti-trust issue?

[Mich97c]

Good point. However I would argue that expanding central control of previously private enterprises is not a good thing. Amtrak loses billions every year.

edit: wasn't Standard Oil an anti-trust issue?

Standard Oil was an anti-trust issue but in a free market that's the most efficient business model - buy up your competition until you own the market.

We have to face reality with the bailouts. They exist and as long as they exist no one is accountable for their actions - big brother will always be there to keep things as they've always been
.

[zilla]

The precedent of government bailouts was set way back in early 1900's with the railroad bailouts (we still own Amtrack). The government has taken control of everything from steel mills car makers, banks and coal mines. Face it, we haven't had a free market system since the government broke up Standard Oil.

Game, set, match.

So keeping rolling the boulder up hill medic and try to convince us you know what hell you are talking about.

"Good point. However I would argue that expanding central control of previously private enterprises is not a good thing."

Ahhhh, but legal. I love when you post something proving my point and crushing yours.

Quick cut and past a new article or opinion with your new daily view, we can't wait.

[zilla]

Another thing I find funny is that 90% of medics posts involve edits. I guess when you don't have your own thoughts and opinions you need to revisit what "you wrote" several times.

[Mich97c]

Game, set, match.

So keeping rolling the boulder up hill medic and try to convince us you know what hell you are talking about.

"Good point. However I would argue that expanding central control of previously private enterprises is not a good thing."

Ahhhh, but legal. I love when you post something proving my point and crushing yours.

Quick cut and past a new article or opinion with your new daily view, we can't wait.

quit being a dick. Is living in out in the woods make you that bitter.

[Medic]

Game, set, match.

So keeping rolling the boulder up hill medic and try to convince us you know what hell you are talking about.

"Good point. However I would argue that expanding central control of previously private enterprises is not a good thing."

Ahhhh, but legal. I love when you post something proving my point and crushing yours.

Quick cut and past a new article or opinion with your new daily view, we can't wait.

You're just too dumb to get out of your own way I guess. Amtrak was a federally created company much in the same vein as Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. While I gave him kudos for bringing up Amtrak, its not the same argument as bailing out privately held companies with taxpayer money.

The consititutional argument still applies. He wasn't even arguing the same point as you. Mich97c is talking more about free market applications of authority and sovereignty of private institutions. Hence his comment about Standard Oil.


Another thing I find funny is that 90% of medics posts involve edits

Haha. The reason I post edits is usually to take out all the condescending asshole things I say in most posts and make them more civil. But I've finally gathered that arguing with an idiot like you is akin to punching myself in the face.

[gator]

OK, OK, everyone.....let's try something new to get through to zilla. Apparently, facts and logic have no effect on the man. Once you have argued enough with him, and he realizes that he cannot debate you point for point, you are escalated up to punching-bag level where any discourse with him becomes a slander towards your existence.

Exhibits A and B:


You want to see real trolls say hi to Furley the Buckeye and Gator the Gator.


Maybe if she (Palin) is elected she will cut all your taxes and gator can move from the double wide and bye bye lloyd can visit the dentist. The rest of you seem like productive members of society, can't believe you want swamp trash in your party.

Medic, you are treading on thin ice. He is now complaining about the percentage of your post with edits instead of what is actually written in them. You are one step from joining the club.

I have apparently previously underestimated zilla's vitriol for anything religious. If you believe in Jesus or a God, you are incapable of being reasonable or making a good point in his mind.


No believing in Jesus does not make you a Jesus freak but the below does.

1. Belief in the rapture.
2. If you use words like "witness" when talking to somone about god.
3. Any bumpersticker that talks about god. This includes the Jesus fish.
4. You think Republican's are the party of god.
5. You are a Promise Keeper. I mean could you be more pussy whiped?
6. Your name is Tim Tebow
7. Announce you are leaving this website because of you belief in god. (Don't laugh in happend)
8. You think the Pope doesn't play with himself.

This is one in a long list of sad posts exhibiting his disdain and lack of knowledge on the subject. The first two points here just say it all. First, Christians have a mandate to go out into the world and "witness" about the Truth and promise of Jesus. Since the rapture is Biblical, why didn't you just say, "You can believe in Jesus, but you're a Jesus freak if you think he rose from the dead."? I understand that the events of "Revelations" are up for some debate, but I encourage you to read them (again if you have before) and make your own conclusions (if that's possible :D). Don't you find it disturbing that it describes a supreme ruler of all the world (aka, a world leader) that will require a marking on your body for you to engage in any commerce. I'm not saying Obama, Clinton, or any other politician we know today is the anti-Christ, but the world is certainly moving in a globalization trend. Liberals are all too happy to sell the sovereignty of the US down the drain, e.g., wanting world courts to have power over our troops. I also find it interesting that companies are globalizing at an unprecedented rate, gathering all sources of energy, transportation, medical care, and food supply under their control. It's not all too comforting to see that such companies (cough...GE) are already in bed with our current world leaders.

Zilla, nobody here, no matter how obvious and overwhelming the facts, can bring the blinders off your eyes until you want them to come off. You kind of remind me of a new neighbor that moved in next door to me. He's not particularly bright, very educated, or politically engaged (not to flatter you or anything :D). All he knows is that Bush fucked shit up the past 8 years and it was a time for a change (via the major news media). While he grasped at straws while trying to tell me exactly what Bush did to piss him off, he eventually formulated that Bush screwed up the economy. I agreed with him that some of Bush's policies, specifically the passing of TARP, were outrageous, but confessed my greater worries about the amount of money Obama wanted to spend. He responded, "Well he's got to spend it...to get us out from this mess Bush created and get the economy back on track." He, like you, couldn't be dissuaded that an economy always responds negatively to higher spending and higher taxes (at least on the scale that Obama was proposing). He also couldn't be convinced that my worries about the economy were genuine, but he was sure they were actually rooted in some right-wing extremist Bushfest conspiracy theory against Obama. The problem is that everyone here, except for you, seems to be able to debate an idea or a philosophy. They have reasons, provide facts, and are willing to acknowledge and accept reasonable evidence or thoughts of merit provided by others. All of these things indicate thinking capacity over a mindless loyalty to a candidate or party. This critique is not meant to be derogatory about you, but simply a stating of fact. Everyone here, at one point or another, has either asked you to please debate the facts or accussed you of not doing so. Everyone here knows exactly what I'm talking about, but somehow, I will bet that you think you nail us every time you post. I don't think this necessarily indicates any lack of mental capacity on your part, but just as I stated before...you have blinders on, man. You've got huge man-love for Obama and ain't nuttin' any of us can say or do to get that woody of yours down. Please let me know when it changes.

To that end, I refuse to debate logically with this guy anymore. I recommend the new Zilla approach:

Here is a sample:

I suggest that we quit responding to him anymore, so he can spend the few hours a day he gets outside his padded cell doing something constructive. Plus, I feel bad when I think about Zilla repeated banging his head into a wall or running around in circles with his arms out, like a crashing airplane (noises and all), just because one of my comments baked his noodle.

[zilla]

"You kind of remind me of a new neighbor that moved in next door to me."

This comment is reserved for home owners only.


As far as not debating facts, what facts are there to debate? We all are telling each other our opinions. Don't confuse doing a cut and paste from Cato, daily kos, etc.... as facts when 99% of the time those cuts and pastes are opinions as well. My favorite thing is how both you and medic are so arrogant in that you think you have it all figured out. The vast majority of real professionals in the space don't know all the problems we face in the economy or what casued it, but boy do you a medic think you do.

So keep up the self congratualtions around how you know and debate the facts and I will be right here to bring you back to reality.

[gator]

"You kind of remind me of a new neighbor that moved in next door to me."

This comment is reserved for home owners only.


As far as not debating facts, what facts are there to debate? We all are telling each other our opinions. Don't confuse doing a cut and paste from Cato, daily kos, etc.... as facts when 99% of the time those cuts and pastes are opinions as well. My favorite thing is how both you and medic are so arrogant in that you think you have it all figured out. The vast majority of real professionals in the space don't know all the problems we face in the economy or what casued it, but boy do you a medic think you do.

So keep up the self congratualtions around how you know and debate the facts and I will be right here to bring you back to reality.

Zilla approach: You're wrong...You're wrong...You're wrong. Oh yeah...well I did it twice again and tomorrow half-assed it?????:eek:

Keep running around in your little airplane circles, sucker!

[zilla]

Gator approach: Write 4000 word post that validates lack of social life, include cut and pastes, mention PHD work so they forget my living standard, repeat until you bore your opposition to death.


Also, if you guys are going to say such negative things about me in the comment section of the rep point thing, have the courage to post the comment on here too so I know who is saying it. Grow a pair.

[gator]

Also, if you guys are going to say such negative things about me in the comment section of the rep point thing, have the courage to post the comment on here too so I know who is saying it. Grow a pair.


Don't know why you put this in a response to me. Unlike you, who seems to dock one of my points as often as you can, I have only ever given you rep one time, and it said: Medic is owning your ass. Is that man enough for you. If I got something to say about you, I'll say it right out here in the open.

In the meantime, go back to drooling, running into walls, and shitting yourself.

[Medic]

Facts? What facts? I never saw any facts around here! It's cut and paste! Paste and cut! Special paste features! Macros! More pasting and cutting! All Medic does is paste cut and copy shit! Plus I bet he's pasty white too! That hack.

Thankfully I am here to keep that "never used a fact in his life" punk in check. His middle name should be CONJECTURE. Look, the vast majority of everyone, which includes everyone breathing right now JUST KNOWS that no one knows anything about whats happening. All the experts from all nations agree the US economy is a big mystery, we have no idea how we got here! You arrogant jerks.

I'm glad we got that all straightened out.

[Medic]

Medic is owning your ass.



whoa Whoa WHOA!!! Let's not even go there ok? I only own one person's ass and that my wife. Zilla....that's just...eww...no.

:)

[byebyelloyd]

Just because I won't let you nut bags get away with lying time and time again don't confuse it with trolling.

You want to see real trolls say hi to Furley the Buckeye and Gator the Gator.
God knows who you pull for in football, as all I ever see from you is boring posts about the economy on a football site. Get a life loser.

so being the ever believing dem nazi you are with your bullshit colored glasses on, even your stupid ass can not post on here without a conscience that obama hasn't lied several times already from the horseshit he told the general idiot public(thats you) in his campaign.

[byebyelloyd]

Exactly, what medic (on purpose) does not mention is that the government did not approach them they approach the government. Medic acts like Obama came in and day one said "hey for fun I am going to end the free markets". The bail outs were needed and I am thankful they happend.

I can pull cut and paste jobs too medic to try and prove a point for any subject on Earth, it does not make it correct however. When Warren Buffet thinks it was needed I will take his opinion over some hack job cut and paste artist like you anyday.

yes, i'm sure a billionaire like him had no personal interests in his advice and definitely wishes the middle class well. wake up idiot.

[byebyelloyd]

quit being a dick. Is living in out in the woods make you that bitter.

its getting old reading the same socialist nazi(the last regime to take the stances of your savior) bullshit from this idiot. he's as bitter about the liberal horses asses being consistently wrong as 1nutsack or putz 1 is about ohio state being second tier to michigan. hopefully when my brother gets back from afghanistan, one of the terrorist that zilla and his left wing moron buddies loves to support will wipe out his whole family so they no longer pollute the earth.

[zilla]

its getting old reading the same socialist nazi(the last regime to take the stances of your savior) bullshit from this idiot. he's as bitter about the liberal horses asses being consistently wrong as 1nutsack or putz 1 is about ohio state being second tier to michigan. hopefully when my brother gets back from afghanistan, one of the terrorist that zilla and his left wing moron buddies loves to support will wipe out his whole family so they no longer pollute the earth.

Wipe out my whole family huh? You reading this medic, gator, furley and others? Have I ever said anything even remotely close to this about you guys? I hope you will call him out for this but I won't hold my breath.

Bye bye lloyd I hope your brother returns home safe as I would never wish harm on others. Hopefully when you become a man someday you will understand this.

[Medic]

hopefully when my brother gets back from afghanistan, one of the terrorist that zilla and his left wing moron buddies loves to support will wipe out his whole family so they no longer pollute the earth.

Whoa there BBL. Totally unacceptable. My prayers go out to you and your family, especially your brother that he comes home safe. But remember that he is fighting for zilla and his safety just as much as he is for you and I.

Zilla might be a douchemaster, but never wish death on anyone.

[Mike Furley]

Wipe out my whole family huh? You reading this medic, gator, furley and others? Have I ever said anything even remotely close to this about you guys? I hope you will call him out for this but I won't hold my breath.

Bye bye lloyd I hope your brother returns home safe as I would never wish harm on others. Hopefully when you become a man someday you will understand this.

the nutbag Jesus freak wing of the Republican party

mouth breathing rednecks

the snake handlers

you nut bags

Get a life loser

you loons

gator can move from the double wide

bye bye lloyd can visit the dentist

swamp trash

you nutjobs

You are such a joke

maybe you will believe your own lies

another "family values" d-bag

he is nothing but a hypocrite. Similiar to you I am sure.

medic the dope

fools like yourself

Send all Catholics back to Rome to slobber over the Pope

you dorks

Remember kooks

Question for the mouth breathers

Biased. Absurd. Pathetic. Hypocrite.

you fools

When they aren't molesting young boys, Catholics like to make the aids crisis worse by their outdated opinions

The Pope is evil

dumbass

that is what makes you such an idiot

You get cable in the double wide?

Stick to being a Walmart Wolverine and leave this section for the taxpayers

retard

I have an education, you flip my burgers

you nut bags



Yes RealSchool/zilla, you have never posted anything about me and my family being wiped out or remotely close to it.

I have to say I'm totally shocked another person on the board would say that about you and yours.

While I do not condone threats of violence, I will not be "calling Bye Bye Lloyd out" at the request of your contrived outrage. I instead give you a yellow card for your flop.

[gator]

its getting old reading the same socialist nazi(the last regime to take the stances of your savior) bullshit from this idiot. he's as bitter about the liberal horses asses being consistently wrong as 1nutsack or putz 1 is about ohio state being second tier to michigan. hopefully when my brother gets back from afghanistan, one of the terrorist that zilla and his left wing moron buddies loves to support will wipe out his whole family so they no longer pollute the earth.

BBL,

I can certainly understand your feelings about zilla and his kind (liberals that is). They just don't seem to understand that there are people out there that freaking hate our guts and won't stop until the "infidel" is annahilated. No peace talk, no apology, no appeasement, and no Obama handjob, blowjob, or happy ending will ever be enough to satiate their hatred of America. The liberal stance is certainly a wonder to me as they seem to hate Christians more than Muslims. At least Christians are willing to let you live if you disagree with them. Seriously, 9-11 was only 8 years ago and you couldn't raise a "God Bless America" out of a liberal gathering today. Further, they are all pushing for closing Gitmo and releasing prisoners. Hell some prisoners are even leaving with a "compensation" check, like we were the criminal. The sad truth is that it will probably take events like people loosing their families to those nutbag extremist before people realize what kind of enemy we are fightning. Nevertheless, I don't think it is right to wish it on the bloody fools (for your own sake), especially the rest of his family (who may not even be as idiotic as the person you are arguing with). Please note this is not some attempt at being politically correct (there is nothing I despise more), or a response to zilla's request to call you out (who gives a shit what he thinks). I merely commented because I had a strong (negative) reaction to your words and I worry about your own inner peace. Letting yourself get worked up over some bug like Zilla isn't worth it. Even if something happened to his family, it would only change his opinion (maybe considering how dense he is), which isn't worth shit. No, the bigger concern is getting the knuckleheads in Washington to realize what we're up against....that's a real problem worth getting upset about. Zilla, on the other hand, is just a nuisance...barely worth your time.

[michAGAIN]

After his remarks yesterday, I think a new front runner for President has arrived --- Joe Biden

--Vice President Biden defended the Obama administration's economic stimulus package Thursday by suggesting that without the federal government spending massive amounts of money to shore up the economy the country would go bankrupt.
"We're going to go bankrupt as a nation," Biden warned at an event in the backyard of the House's No. 2 Republican.
"People, when I say that, look at me and say, 'What are you talking about, Joe? You're telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?" he said. "The answer is yes."--

(Guys, it is brilliant and I have recently tried this method. I have spent every penny I have and more. The more I spend the further I get from bankruptcy. Brilliant!)

http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/75318/brilliant_medium.jpg

[zilla]

Gator,

You are such a joke. Nice I love America post but liberals don't. What a bunch of mindless nonsense.

I will ask you again, with all this greater love for America and fear of the bad guys why have you not stood up and joined the military? Or is internet posts on a football site that doesn't even include the Florida Gators your form of defending America?

Chickenhawk coward.

[byebyelloyd]

Gator,

You are such a joke. Nice I love America post but liberals don't. What a bunch of mindless nonsense.

I will ask you again, with all this greater love for America and fear of the bad guys why have you not stood up and joined the military? Or is internet posts on a football site that doesn't even include the Florida Gators your form of defending America?

Chickenhawk coward.

i could care less if anyone condones or disowns my opinion. i'm not worried about my brother, the future will be what comes, but no one can doubt the consequences of bringing our soldiers home. not only are they occupying terrorist countries, they are occupying terrorists as well. as the clinton policy demonstrated which was do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and watch bombs hit every building, boat, and civilian target there was with no recourse versus the bush policy to be proactive and take the fight to them, its quite easy to see which is more effective. its also easy to buy into the bullshit liberal medias version of the war, that its a futile effort and we're basically losing. now go talk to our soldiers like i have chances to do and you'll come to find out this is not the case. allied forces have around a 20-1 kill ratio, yes thats correct, 20-1, and there hasn't been a single successful attack on an american civilian target in 8 years. i will never apologize for what i believe or say, but maybe i should apologize for being a realist in a country who is nowhere near ready to accept it.

[byebyelloyd]

After his remarks yesterday, I think a new front runner for President has arrived --- Joe Biden

--Vice President Biden defended the Obama administration's economic stimulus package Thursday by suggesting that without the federal government spending massive amounts of money to shore up the economy the country would go bankrupt.
"We're going to go bankrupt as a nation," Biden warned at an event in the backyard of the House's No. 2 Republican.
"People, when I say that, look at me and say, 'What are you talking about, Joe? You're telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?" he said. "The answer is yes."--

(Guys, it is brilliant and I have recently tried this method. I have spent every penny I have and more. The more I spend the further I get from bankruptcy. Brilliant!)

http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/75318/brilliant_medium.jpg

that commercial always did remind me of barry and joe during their campaign. "lets lie about our every policy to win the general publics support then run through the next 4 years with blinders on, BRILLIANT."